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"B" series vs. "B" series pro


Best Answer REVflyer, 10 March 2011 - 03:51 AM

The B-Series Pro standard (sail built as an SUL) is the finest product REV has ever had their name on, at least in my limited experience.
It is worth the price, worth the waiting time after ordering and the practice hours (if you haven't got 'em already) necessary to appreciate Bazzer's superior craftsmanship!

A couple of sets of frames, line set lengths and this kite = any inland flier having a decade's worth of fun in hand, all for a few hundred bucks.

Do you need this "ride"?, heck no! Will you enjoy it? ABSOLUTELY

The difference between the B-Series & the Pro?
It is the difference between a manufacturing line's steel knife and a hand-forged masterpiece Damascus steel blade. Both cut just fine, but one makes itself a part of your Chi! Go to the full post


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#21 REVflyer

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 11:55 AM

Guy, you can feel it when you start to tune or modify towards your own personal preferences, regardless of others' input.
You like it, so you use it YOUR own way!

I'm no master class flier by skill, but I enjoy these kites probably a lot more often than most people do. Since I have lots of hours invested not much phases me, I can fly in crap wind, bad weather & demanding locations. Others can make it look better & easier but nobody can fly when I can not, so I'll also join 'em given the opportunity!

Go hang with the great Rev pilots in your country, drive a few hours each way and get a coach to take you under their wing, show you the tricks and let you try out their equipment. There are no big secrets, we all share what we have learned (or purchased) if you look like you're interested enough to come over and say hello. This single action may cost you some funds for fuel, meals or housing but it will cut years off of your learning curve and save you thousands of euros in the long run.

Age is not a concern, I get beat-up in competitions by both the grandmothers and the smallest children, it's all good.

#22 SkyPuppet

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:35 AM

Now that I've spent a good deal of time with my standard sail B-Pro, I can compare it to my standard sail B. Here's my 2 cents.

The leading edge (LE) and trailing edge (TE) work on the Pro is FAR superior compared to the standard B. I especially believe the LE on the Pro helps to give it the edge in performance over the B. The material is reinforced at every edge, by being folded (rolled?) over and sewn. It also just feels like different material than the regular B, but that could be because its still new-ish. I think this would make the Pro weigh slightly more than a B, but as REVflyer says, its about WHERE the added mass goes on the kite! The added mass on the Pro leading edge makes it considerably easier to throw (Race frame, 50 ft. line - no problem!), IMHO. From now on, I want ALL my Revs with the handmade, reinforced LE!!

The Pro does reverse flight better, tracking straighter and smoother than a B. I believe this is due to the TE being reinforced with an extra line of stitching that runs the length of it. While I'm at it, ALL the stitching on a Pro is better, with a considerably tighter stitching pattern than used on a B.

Lateral flight is much improved over a standard B. I think this is a culmination of all the things that are better about a Pro; the TE, LE, and general craftsmanship all coming together to improve flight. Upright lateral slides are way less twitchy than when performed with a standard B.

I must say, when it comes to the B-Pro, I've never flown a finer kite Posted Image The Zen is now a close second, and only because of its limited wind-range.

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#23 kwmf

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:50 AM

The material is reinforced at every edge, by being folded (rolled?) over and sewn. It also just feels like different material than the regular B, but that could be because its still new-ish. I think this would make the Pro weigh slightly more than a B, but as REVflyer says, its about WHERE the added mass goes on the kite!


Having recently had the opportunity to spend a little time on a Pro (both standard and vented) I must concur with that. The material certainly does feel heavier and stronger than the factory B series, but when I weighed them the difference in grams falls into negligable variance. In the air it felt somewhat heavier at first, which concerned me me ... but I haven't really had an issue with it. While I lack the skill and experience to fully explore this, I think my factory B fly into a slightly lower wind range than the Pros I have handled, but the Pro goes higher than the B series.

I'm not sure if there is any difference in tightness on the leading edge bungees or how that would effect things, but thats just how it feels to me. I can fly the Pro in low wind without problems, but it feels to me like I have to give up stationary type moves for maintaining momentum and lift sooner on the Pro than I do with the B. I'm not complaining about this at all, just a difference that I'm feeling .... I can fly either which way.

#24 kwmf

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:55 AM

I'm so glad I found my original post here after spending a month with a Pro..

Originally, aside from feeling a difference in weight (perhaps balance of weight may be more accurate) and materials I mentioned above ... I couldn't really identify much of a difference between the two in terms of handling. Now that I have put some flight time in on the Pro, I can feel it when I go back to the B .... and I must say I try to avoid flying the B now that I'm used to the pro :blushing:

I think the Pro is a kite that most will not feel the difference with, even when flying back to back with the B, unless they have a lot of experience and a very educated hand. I am currently of the opinion you will only feel the difference after spending time on the Pro and then going back to the B series. Until you've done that, you probably won't understand or justify why there is a price difference between the two.

The standard B is by NO means a bad kite, and if you never handled a Pro or only tried it once you would probably never be unhappy with your B series at all. It's only once you've spent some flight hours on the Pro that you will long for that Pro to be in your bag instead of the B.

In terms of what I've notices in flight so far, the Pro feels tighter, smoother and hangs in a lot longer in reverse before it's unhappy about how far you're pushing it. I also had opportunity to do basic pairs with a new guy with both my B and my Pro (he has a B) on the same day and I could clearly see a difference in flight. Because he doesn't have speed control, follows were all flat out with him in the lead - leaving me to react to any bad inputs he made. The B series pair flew almost identically, but when I switched to the Pro I could see a difference in speed, rotation, etc which I had to start accounting for to match with him.

Do you NEED a Pro series to fly revs .... no
Is the Pro better than the B .... yes
Is the increased cost justified .... yes
Is the increased cost worth it .... only you can answer that, and it requires handle time with the Pro

If it counts for anything, I've ordered my own custom set of Pro series after putting in the flight time to learn the difference

#25 Moggy

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

Does the B and B-Pro differ in fabric, the actual sail material? Or are they made out of the same material?

Thanks.

#26 RevWizard

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

The B Pro is made exclusively from "Icarex" brand ripstop polyester.
The non-pro B's were made from ripstop polyester coming from various manufacturers. I am not sure of the material this year or last year.
Seems to me they are also only Icarex now.

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#27 Kitelife

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

Icarex has become a somewhat interchangeable term nowadays, just wanted to clarify a bit further... ;)

The B-PROs use PC-31 Icarex, the real deal, top grade and quite a bit more expensive so it's not used in the regular B-Series.

All quality riptstop goes through periods where it's hard to get, either in particular colors, or in general.

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#28 Moggy

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:48 AM


The B-PROs use PC-31 Icarex, the real deal, top grade and quite a bit more expensive so it's not used in the regular B-Series.

 

Thanks John. Just out of curiosity, what are the actual materialistic/physical differences of the Icarex PC-31 over the material used for the regular B-Series?



#29 Watty

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

Thanks John. Just out of curiosity, what are the actual materialistic/physical differences of the Icarex PC-31 over the material used for the regular B-Series?

 

You can see the difference when comparing the two kites. The fabric on the B-Pro remains crisp longer, doesn't stretch as quickly, and is more water resistant. The B-Series, after a bit of use, will feel soft to the touch. You will see the kite stretching in a way that distorts the curve in the outside of the trailing edge. The kite will also get heavier when wet. Both kites will get to this point eventually, but the B-Pro takes longer to get there.


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#30 awindofchange

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

PC-31 is Icarex's method of designating what the fabric is.  It stands for polyester carbonate at 31 grams per sq. meter.  Icarex is also a company owned by VliegerOp (aka. Peter Lynn Products) in the Netherlands.  Regardless if it is Texlon or Icarex or whatever brand, it is all polyester reinforced ripstop material.  Icarex tends to be what everyone quotes as "the" best material, truthfully there are many different designations for Icarex material.  It is like saying an adjustable end wrench is a Crescent wrench.  Crescent is the brand name that originally manufactured the adjustable end wrench - These days, there are many manufactures that make adjustable end wrenches.  Some brands are better than others and you can argue that Snap-On or MAC makes a better "crescent" wrench than Crescent does....

 

The big difference is not necessarily the fabric itself, but the coatings that are used on that fabric.  Icarex has a special way of coating their fabrics that works exceptionally well for kites without adding a lot of weight and lasting a very long time.  It is also coated on both sides where as some other manufacturers may (or may not) only coat on one side.  The cost on the fabrics are all pretty close in price and usually when a manufacturer such as Revolution chooses a particular fabric for it's B-Series kites, it is chosen on color more than manufacturer and price.  Icarex is a company that produces a majority of material for the kiting industry, so that is usually what most companies tend to choose, but if a certain color or style is not available from Icarex, then other manufacturers are considered. 

 

Most people would never "feel" or know what fabric is actually used in their kite without physically looking at the material, they are all so close to each other in quality and weight that it is difficult to know unless you have spent thousands of hours flying each type and style in the same wind conditions...then you may be able to feel a difference from the pilots end.  As you change from Ripstop Polyester to Ripstop Nylon, the differences become much more noticable but it would be exceptionally difficult to tell the difference between a sail that was made with 100% Icarex brand materials and one that was say 50% Icarex and 50% Texlon.

 

That being said - and the fact that this topic is noted as differences between the B-Pro and standard B....

You can most definately tell the difference in overall flight and control between a normal production line B-Series kite and a hand made custom B-Pro produced by Bazzar.  The difference is not so much the material used, but more in the details and the tedius way that Bazzar assembles each kite.  Bazzar does things on the B-Pro that would just be too expensive and time consuming for Revolution to do on each of it's B-Series, things such as the extra details on the leading edge ends and the finishing details on the trailing edges amoung other things.

 

Hope that helps, this is the best of my knowledge of what I have heard/learned from others who are much more experienced in materials and such than I am.  Please forgive me if any of this is not correct.



#31 Kitelife

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

Nothing to add, Kent and Watty have fairly well covered it.

 

Kent, should be able to edit now?


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#32 SparkieRob

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:51 PM

I think that B Series kites are a little light on the right wing, this is corrected when Bazza signs them.....


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#33 kwmf

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

You can most definately tell the difference in overall flight and control between a normal production line B-Series kite and a hand made custom B-Pro produced by Bazzar.  The difference is not so much the material used, but more in the details and the tedius way that Bazzar assembles each kite.  Bazzar does things on the B-Pro that would just be too expensive and time consuming for Revolution to do on each of it's B-Series, things such as the extra details on the leading edge ends and the finishing details on the trailing edges amoung other things.

 

This always reminds me of my first Pro and of meeting Bazzer

 

In flight, I did not feel like there was much of a difference until I flew a Pro exclusively for over a month - when I switched back to the B-series the differences really started to jump out at me. Given the choice I will take a Pro in flight over a B every single time, but I am often on the handles of my friends B-series and can assure those reading that the B-series will not hold you back, but a Pro will make it that little bit nicer :)

 

In construction...

Lets just say that after making the trip to the USA and getting to meet Bazzer and have to opportunity to spend time talking with him and flying with him ... there is not another person I know of that I would rather have make me a kite than him. I'll skip the details since we really don't need to inflate the poor mans ego, but I'll just say that Bazzer is the man. You will likely never see or understand all of the things that go into the Pro, but they are there and they do make a difference.

 

For me, these things are worth the extra cost ... your mileage may vary



#34 Watty

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Another big difference that you may find between the b-series and the b-pro is the way that the fabric is sewn into the kite. Rip-stop  tends to stretch on the diagonal, so the way that it is sewed changes the way the sail stretches in general.


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#35 Moggy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:05 AM

Hope that helps..

 

Certainly does. As I'm still learning, it clears up a good few queries I had running in my head!

 

Thank you all for your esteemed, experienced input. 2i92mw5.gif



#36 awindofchange

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

You are most welcome.

 

John B.  Edit now seems to be working so I edited my original and deleted the duplicate.  Thanks.



#37 SparkieRob

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:48 AM

Another big difference that you may find between the b-series and the b-pro is the way that the fabric is sewn into the kite. Rip-stop tends to stretch on the diagonal, so the way that it is sewed changes the way the sail stretches in general.

Thanks Watty, I have been wondering this for a while now.


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