20 replies to this topic

[kwmf]

Seeing as how it's a slow day at work and on the forum, I thought I'd put forth a hyperthetical question to see what comes out.

If you were to pick a set of 4-5 sails in the 1.5 series that had ONLY a single frame, what would they be?
This bag would have to cover the entire wind range from low wind to really going for it, so I assume the low end would be a full sail with Race Rods and the top end would be full vent with 4 wrap frame. What I'm interested in is what people feel would be the 2 or 3 kites in the middle of that.

Staying away from the customs, masterpiece series and the Zen, what would you guys go for if you had to pick from the 1.5 series?

Steven

[kitefantex]

I just bought two of the B series. A regular and a vented. They both came with an extra set of rods. Both had the standard rods in the kite themselves and the vented came with ultra lite while the standard came with strong. So with the two kites I figure it works out to six kites. Or more if you double up on rods.

[Baloo]

Suppose the lowest of the low wind 1.5 might be a SUL with Zen Rods.
Next one up would be a Full with Race Rods
Mid with 3 wrap
Full Vent with 4 Wrap.
Might need a custom mega vent with 4 wrap?

Not sure if you are going to allow us to swap the frames around?

All would need to be Pro's of course.

Think this might be one answer to the question you asked.

[kwmf]

Think this might be one answer to the question you asked.

Aye Baloo, you've got my intention ... That is but ONE answer. I'm sure there are a few answers, and I'm wondering what others think.

For the sake of the exercise, you're not allowed to swap frames out - one kite, one frame. I'm wondering what people would want in a 4-5 kite back to cover zero to max wind, and even if they feel it could be done in 5 increments.

As for Pro's ... Any functional reason other than either being rich or greedy :-p

Steven

[Jeepster]

The answer depends on several variables ... your skill level, the average winds in your area, do you have to fly on certain days regardless of the winds, etc...

Thus, the answer is highly personal ... which might be why you're not getting much response. If I could only have five fixed-framed kites this would be my answer:

2~7 mph winds ... SUL w/ 3-wraps or race rods ... 25% usage
5~15 mph winds ... Standard w/ 3-wrap rods ... 10% usage
8~18mph winds ... Mid-vent w/ 3-wrap rods ... 35% usage
12~22 mph winds ... Full-vent w/ 3-wrap rods ... 20% usage
15~25 mph winds ... Full-vent w/ 4-wrap rods ... 10% usage

The percent usage is a WAG. The mid-vent is really my favorite kite with the SUL (a stretched out well worn sail with numerous holes in the fabric) coming up in second place. And, I lean towards the stiff frame sets!! The disciples of race rods will label me as a heretic, but I still don't fly with them very much. Practice will far overshadow any equipment deficiencies.

I've got a mixed bag of standard, B-series and B-Pro kites right now. I made appropriate decisions when buying them ... didn't know how long Revs would keep my interest. Replacements will be B-pros. If you're going to stay with flying Revs, then they are well worth the extra money. Barry signs every Pro that he makes ... enough said!! Besides, it's nice to be able to picture the guy who made your kite ... even if he's a ^%$^ Brit with a warped sense of humor.

If the winds in the Mid-west were consistently above 20~25 mph, I'd trade the Full-vent w/ 3-wraps for a Mega-vent with 4-wrap rods.

Cheers,
Tom

[HedgeWarden]

Maybe I'm bending the topic, so BT rather rather than OT...

I (intermediate level at best) like to have the same feel (pull) under each wind condition. So, a frame, it seems, should be universal across all sail types if the sail is appropriate for the wind speed, and my personal preference for pull. In other words, use enough venting to bring the pull and speed down to your sweet spot, and use the frame set that provides the appropriate flexibility. (I am just learning about flexibility - only recently swapped the 4 wrap in my mid-vent SLE with a 3 wrap and said - YES.)

So, if I like a light pull, use a race frame or 3 wrap and the sail that loads appropriately for the wind conditions. If I want a heavy pull, a 4 wrap frame in the sail that will deliver that experience might be a better choice.

Am I over analyzing again?

Any comments on matching the frame to the desired pull, and the sail to the wind condition to match the desired pull? I realize that at the higher and lower ends of the wind range, the desired pull may need to be compromised.

[Baloo]

They should all be Pro's simply for the superior finish on them. Bazzer makes such a good job of them if we are going for fantasy bags full of Revs they just have to be Pro's.

And there is nowt wrong with Brits with a warped sense of humour Tom

In my bags I have a hard bag with a set of B's Fuul Mid and Vented, with Race, 2, 3 and 4 wraps which cover any wind I want to fly in pretty much. This stays in the car pretty much all the time.

I then have anoter bag with various from Zen to Blasts which go out on flying Days.

[btbt]

As stated before the winds in one`s area determines this as much as one`s skill level.... Myself....I live by the ocean but have generally light(ish) winds and have been flying revs for about 15 yrs.
I have many Revs and frames for different winds and moods, but to answer your query re only using 5 1.5`s with only 1 frame I`ll tell you what I have, and like to use, given these parameters. This is very personal as I like slooow flying and have a gentle touch. The following will, and does cover the range from 0 until about 15 mph. Anything over that I`ll stay home as that amount of wind, for me, isn`t fun...but if I have or had to, I`ll add a 6th.... The wind ranges will be obvious and will overlap quite a bit especially in the 4-10mph range with my fave winds being from about 2 to 8 mph. This also not taking unto account the length and weight of the lines.
Also I (WTF!!!) have no Race Rods....never got around to getting any... I just really like the feel of 2 wraps for my gentler style. I`m quite sure I`d like them though....one day...
These are my fave 1.5 combo`s for my style of flying in the winds I like:

SUL w/2 wrap
Full sail w/3 wrap
Mid vntd w/ 2 wrap
Full vntd w/ 2 wrap
Full vntd v/4 wrap
For over 15 mph I would probably use a full vntd w/sle rather than doubling up the le.....did I just type that....sorry folks the lowly sle does have it`s place.....
Keeping all that in mind I swap out frames....3 wrap in a mid vntd, 4 wrap in a full sail etc... as well as lines. Even change handles sometimes.
bt

[kwmf]

You said SLE and NO race rods in the same post ... you're definately asking for trouble there lad

I must admit I didn't expect to see anyone suggest a SLE frame, but considering that I did say 1 frame per kite and you had to cover the whole wind range top to bottom, I guess the single SLE instead of 2x 4 wraps really should have been expected.

This is why I asked the question .... I'm expecting different answers. It's more about getting into the mind of more experienced Rev flyers and learn how they think and why. In the real world, you can cover most things with a full sail, vented sail, race rods, 3 wrap and 4 wrap ... but I'm just picking brains so that I can learn what I can.

[Baloo]

Now there you go, just didnt even remember that Rev make a SLE to fit the 1.5

OK, so take away my suggested possibility of a custom mega vent, cuz you did say no customs in the first post.

Put in it's place a Full Vent B Pro with SLE, fantastic, all done now with no tricks, no doubleing up the LE n stuff.

Now I have flown in "THAT IS JUST STUPID" winds with a full vent, doubled up leading edge. If the 1.5 SLE is anywhere near as stiff as the SLE in my BLast I am sure I could fly a B in STUPID winds with an SLE in it. (Never flown a 1.5 with a SLE)

So that makes my wish list for all wind possibles, with Revs which you are not allowed to change the frames in.

Is'nt it good that you can swap the frames out though?

[Jeepster]

... Now I have flown in "THAT IS JUST STUPID" winds with a full vent, doubled up leading edge. If the 1.5 SLE is anywhere near as stiff as the SLE in my BLast I am sure I could fly a B in STUPID winds with an SLE in it. (Never flown a 1.5 with a SLE) ...

Hey Bear,

I've collected some measurements off a friend's 3-wrap SLE leading edge and several of our 4-wrap quarter inch leading edges. Based on those measurements, the SLE leading edge is about 15% stiffer and 70% of the weight of dual quarter inch 4-wrap leading edges. So, for those "THAT IS JUST STUPID" winds, the SLE has a clear advantage over doubling up on quarter inch leading edges. Or you could "modify" a full vent to add additional venting ... that's not a custom, just a modified!!

Cheers,
Tom

[Watty]

If I had my choice of 4-5 rev 1.5s I would choose:

1. Full Sail B-Series with Race Rods
2. Mid-vent B-Series with Race Rods
3. Full Vent with 3 wrap
4. Full Vent with 4 wrap

Edited by Watty, 18 May 2010 - 02:54 PM.

[Baloo]

Thanks for that info Tom. Looks like there is a use for SLE's other than beating Anman and Tomato sticks.

And hey Spence, the post says 5 Revs, you are not going to give up the oppertunity of having another One by not getting the full set are you? Even if it is just another one to lend to folks so they can see how they fly?

[REVflyer]

Number ONE
~Elliott Shook's waffle weave 1.5 masterpiece (50% sail pattern) with 4 wrap frame (for the highest wind conditions!)
This is a necessary/required kite despite your restriction on no masterpiece kites.

Numbers TWO thru FOUR
~ B-Series (Pro) full sail 1.5 SUL w/race frame leading edge and Zen tube down spars + a french bridle
~ B-Series (Pro) mid vent SUL w/race frame + french bridle
~ B-Series (Pro) full vent SUL w/race frame + french bridle

Number FIVE
~ B-Series 1.5 SUL with Zen tube leading edge outers and a 3 wrap center spar plus tapered 2PT skyshark down-spars and the 1point6 bridle
(my throw & catch, no-wind special, for entertaining spectators on short lines)


Additions for the kite bag beyond kites,
a set of clip-on-the-leading edge LED lights (button battery powered), holographic foil tails, a hummer from Art St. Pierre (ask dantonio how cool that darn "screamer" was on his set of Bazzer Eyes in Ocean City!), various frame sets (Zen tube set for the 1.5s, complete sets of 3wraps & 2 wraps plus a few Race replacement sticks and SLE 3 wrap leading edge for the 1.5s (home invasion protection), extra bridles and training wheel components, extra reinforcing patches or teldar tape, copies of my demo music (in case I don't want to soul-fly), lighter, sharpie markers in different colors, forceps, knife, scissors, bottle opener and cork screw, bug juice (Deet 100), sun-screen, ground stakes and a tarp just large enough to hold my stuff.

At least half a dozen sets of lines, wound around flying handles in different lengths, configured for various conditions, 50#/120s, 150#/100', 90# in lots of various lengths (all LaserPro Gold). Each set of lines is equalized specific to those handles and seldom removed.

Edited by REVflyer, 19 May 2010 - 02:58 AM.

[Baloo]

You forgot a Tent and a truck to carry it all in.

[btbt]

Ha! I figured I`d get a snicker for having no race rods and including an sle....especially when I have an sle sitting in the closet that probably will never be used again...in a 1.5 anyway. I keep it in case an le breaks in my Super Sonic or Shockwave....I could at least mickey mouse/cut to size....

I will admit to purchasing an sle when they first came out...`98/`99??? to try in my original 1.5 bought in '97...(I had 1`s and 2`s already...) and found it mildly interesting at best, figuring I`d try it in a vented one day. I tried it (sle) in my first 1.5 vented but for the most part kept the 4 wraps in. Used the sle very rarely as I didn`t mind higher winds back then. Also it took me a while to bike to the flying field and dammit, I was going to fly no matter what...
As my skill level increased, my wind preferences decreased dramatically....hence 2 wrap frames. This long before B`s and race rods et al..
Fast forward to present....I abhor kiting in high winds. If there are whitecaps on the water I generally won`t go flying...plain and simple, keeping in mind I now live right across the street from an ocean beach and I work mostly at home.
So "IF" I were ever to even consider going out in winds around 15 and up..the sle in a 1.5 vntd would suffice...hence adding 1 more to the 5. The info regarding the added stiffness and less weight of the sle vs doubling up le`s is interesting...thanks Tom.
As for not having any race rods...I would LIKE to get some, but I don`t NEED them. I do like to eat and purchase expensive musical instruments....I was going to get a RR set but then Korg came out with the new Wavedrum....that won out in an instant.
I really like 2 wraps for my very gentle and slow style of flying. I also like my speed series kites to be the slow floaty series. I generally fly to slow down, meditate, and dance with a kite. My life as a musician is pretty crazy and fast paced enough. My kiting isn`t. I`ll get some RR`s one day and I`m sure I`ll love them....but I would rather save up for a Zen in the long run...
For my list I also used the regular 1.5`s...this meaning no B`s or Pro`s as I (mis)understood this to be the query...given what I have and fly. Alas I have only 1 B and no Pros...quite a few 1`s, 2`s and 1.5 suls....(bunch of deca`s also...see below..)
My 5 fave Revs I own are: 1.5 B; 1.5 mid and full vntd; Sedgwick 1 all with 2/wraps. A vntd Sedgwick 1; vntd 1.5; and a vntd 2 all w/4wraps tie for 5th. And of course there`s the frame swapping and combos as well...2 wrap w/ 3 wrap center, 3 wrap w/ 4 wrap center, etc...
Hijack....for me in no wind a 0 wind deca or 0 wind minergy deca rule....and again if I were to fly in higher winds I`d use my old deca 6 or minergy before putting the sle in a vented rev.
bt

[REVflyer]

You forgot a Tent and a truck to carry it all in.

Nope!
all that crap fits into a single Rev bag.
I transport to locations beyond my vehicle parking spot using a bucket-equipped golf cart. I seldom carry much personally on my aching back. I'll lash a folding chair or stool onto the cart as well as barbara's lovingly-packed lunch and beverages.

We are traveling lighter and lighter as time goes on. You drag eight tons of crap and wind up only flying one vented kite all week! That's happened so often I quit carrying everything. In fact I am in dump-mode. Stuff that never gets used is being moved-out so other fliers can get chance. I've dumped masterpiece Revs, even a signed Beautiful Evil, the first kite I ever used in competition. I'm in no hurry, occasionally folks put out a request to buy specific items, which I've probably got one of them anyway. When I die nobody will want any of this stuff, . . . not even my own son and he's a quad-head!

[kwmf]

You wouldn't happen to have a Bazzer Double Dragon would you ?

I really like that sail and I know he swore never again ... so I'm going to have to just hope someone wants to sell one

[REVflyer]

I didn't pickup the double dragon, (but Michael's craft store has the graphics bazzer used, at least is sure looked exactly the same to me)

It's hard to justify another thousand dollar kite to my misses, the last one I got was a Gibian Rev for my 50th birthday. That kite is spectacular visually, but way too heavy duty for my neck-of-the-woods. It could protect the space shuttle on re-entry. I use it for lessons any not much else.

[fungus]

More questions than answers ?!

i'm too lazy to carry a lot of gear so i want the minimum set of gear to cover all conditions.
my kite bag at moment has
ZEN ( arrived last week, flew once, yesterday in zilch wind )
B std - race rods
1.5 sul - 2 wrap
1.5 std - 3 wrap
1.5 vent - 4 wrap

50lb x 80ft , 50lb x 100 ft, 90lb x 100ft , 90lb x 120 ft lines with handles attached on winders.

i'm hoping that this covers it, maybe add a B midvent, when the wife has forgotton about the ZEN.

fungus