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#41 RevWizard

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 11:12 AM

I personnaly prefer: "face" as stated by J. Mitchell. Phonetics are very important as mentioned by: J. Barresi, but in my little experience with team flying, I suggest to the pilot leaders to SPEAK OUT LOUD... :lol: man...I am not only going deaf, :angry: but if you speak the commands for yourself, only, then the other pilots will be half way guessing...??? Huu me and my big mouth... Nothing personal Jim F.-....dig. :rolleyes:

(I guess my best position would be next to the pilot leader, that way, I CAN HEEEAR YOUUU...) :D

Actually John B brought forward first the word "face". I had suggested possibly something more known as "leading edge", despite that I would personally prefer "face".

As for leading a team, I would also be to soft spoken for doing that.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#42 RevWizard

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 11:17 AM

This to use a translator, that I write? I mark to you in the photos that I am.

Yes, I remember now. You are the larger and quieter one guy from Bolau.

There is a picture of Bolau receiving their trophy at:
http://home.arcor.de...DSCN8878_sm.jpg

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#43 Kitelife

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 08:29 PM

To be clear, your sentiment is "leading edge left" for all kites to face left?

My problem with this, it's not a literal instruction... Face left is just that, while leading edge doesn't literally specify that you're merely facing your kite a certain way.

The quick command calls MUST be fairly literal, so that newer and intermediate pilots can participate.

I feel very strongly about this, based on my repeated mega flies over the past year, dealing regularly with first-time and inexperienced team fliers.

John Barresi

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#44 mousieo

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:27 PM

Being one of the inexperienced flyers.. I have to agree.. keep it simple.. its confusing enough as it is.. if I have to decifer details.. I will have the entire team on the ground. lol

#45 Mike

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:34 AM

I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend.

We also need "Clockwise".

And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise."
Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that?

John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate.
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#46 Mike

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:44 AM

I'd like to add some more figures to the next addition of the manual. Suggestions from some of our Spanish friends?

They can be simple figures, even ones that are easy to explain on the field. The reason I would like to add them to the manual is to give new groups ideas of things to do. It can be hard to come up with stuff when you are calling. Examples might be mountains and valleys.

It might be good to have a page of ideas. Such as forming a pyramid ( 1 by 2 by 3) and flanking around the sky.
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#47 Kitelife

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 01:59 PM

I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend.

Agreed.

We also need "Clockwise".

Also agreed. ;)

And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise."
Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that?

Generally, I'll call "clockwise" or "anti"... Good calls for the manual.

John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate.

Fair enough. "Fall in" is an old USA team term, but follow is indeed literal, and better for international use.

John Barresi

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#48 RevWizard

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 02:15 PM

I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend.

We also need "Clockwise".

And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise."
Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that?

John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate.

How are you using the word FLANK?
I would go for "anti-clockwise". If I recall right the Brits use it normally and it is probably understood better.
"Fall In" or "Follow"? I do believe "Follow" would be understood quicker. In Europe for example they still have little yellow and black cars(or trucks) with the sign "FOLLOW ME" on the back that they use to guide airplanes around at airports. Most everyone in Europe has flown and has seen them.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#49 Kitelife

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 03:29 PM

Flank = sharp corner. (i.e. flank up, flank down, flank right, etc.)

I supposed you could use "corner up" etc... Makes not much difference to me, corner is more literal.

John Barresi

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"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
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#50 RevWizard

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:40 PM

Flank = sharp corner. (i.e. flank up, flank down, flank right, etc.)

I supposed you could use "corner up" etc... Makes not much difference to me, corner is more literal.

You got me there.
Let us see what the Europeans say.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#51 Mr. Guatemalan kiteFlier

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:07 PM

Flank...??? yeah...why not. BUT.
As far as I understand, in my former Country, Guatemala, Flank was used in the military.
When an officer would tell the troops "Flanco derecho, derecho. " it meant for the troops or a soldier, to turn 90 degrees to the right. The second derecho means "go".
This Flank expression would be the same as Face.??? won't it. :(
*El Artesano Del Viento*

#52 Harrier

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 04:28 AM

Flank seems an odd word to me for inducing turns, perhaps my old drill sergeant could be handy here, you might not have understood him but he left you in no doubt as to where he intended you to go. Right turn, left turn for right angle turns, right wheel, left wheel for round turns through 90 degrees were amongst all the other commands burnt into the brain.

Stand at ease. :lol: ......Stand easy.

#53 play365

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 04:39 AM

I think we also need to add the term "flank" to the manual. It was new to me this last weekend.

We also need "Clockwise".

And we need to decide amongst us English speaking folks and pick one: "counter-clockwise" or "anti-clockwise."
Last weekend, John was calling "anti" which is a good short word. Maybe we should settle on that?

John also often called "fall in" instead of "follow", but I think we should stick with "follow" for international usage as it is easier to translate.



I think that you just need Clock and anti as in 90 clock pin or 180 anti pin ..allways works for us :rolleyes:
GARY




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#54 Mike

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 05:06 AM

Clock might be confused with clockwork turns, that is, staying in place and snap turning to right , down, left, up.

We may not need "flank", but I think it's a little more clear.
Let's see if have this right:

The call "right" is usually made when all kites are stationary and then turn right while staying in place.
The call "flank right" is usually made when the kites are in motion and all kites turn right and continue flying.

while flying up, the "flank right" call is made:
flank.gif
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#55 RevWizard

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:07 AM

Clock might be confused with clockwork turns, that is, staying in place and snap turning to right , down, left, up.

We may not need "flank", but I think it's a little more clear.
Let's see if have this right:

The call "right" is usually made when all kites are stationary and then turn right while staying in place.
The call "flank right" is usually made when the kites are in motion and all kites turn right and continue flying.

while flying up, the "flank right" call is made:
flank.gif

I have to think way back to when I had to do my military(Navy) service.

Flank right would have been "right turn hup", if I recall correctly. Hup was a go!

Then there was a "half right hup" which was 45 degree version of a flank right. Might be a nice maneuver for REVs.

Does anyone remember/know these calls more precisely?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#56 Kitelife

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:25 AM

Again, "flank" has been a US standard call for many years (probably from the TOTL days)... But "turn" or "corner" makes more sense from a universal standpoint.

Bear in mind, we're not limiting what teams use from day to day... We're just narrowing this down to an international standard everyone can use.

John Barresi

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"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#57 Stephen Hoath

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 09:47 AM

Clock might be confused with clockwork turns, that is, staying in place and snap turning to right , down, left, up.

flank.gif


The move you describe are individual pin wheels. ie any figure where the rotatation is around the centre of the kite or formation. Individual 180 radars are turns around the tip of the kite.

I have used this method frequently as you only have to understand what a pinwheel or radar are. Then if someone calls an 90 anti, indi pinwheel and you are already facing up you will know you need to turn to "face" left. The speed of the move can also be called. A fast 90 anti indi pinwheel might be called a left Flank.


Whilst I applaud the efforts of uniformity and fully support the need the most important thing is that, on the day, all the pilots understand what is expected of them. It is always advisable to set some ground rules, even when you are flying with people you regularly fly with. From experience I can promise that this will save a great deal of time :rolleyes:

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#58 elalmadelpiloto

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 06:39 AM

Hi Kite - mates :rolleyes:
Manual "Guide": Translation into Spanish version:
Flank = Side = Flanco
Face = Leading Edge = Borde de Ataque
Fall in = Descender - Caer
Follow = Seguimiento
Good winds :rolleyes:
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#59 mdilucca

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 08:15 AM

Hi Kite - mates :rolleyes:
Manual "Guide": Translation into Spanish version:
Flank = Side = Flanco
Face = Leading Edge = Borde de Ataque
Fall in = Descender - Caer
Follow = Seguimiento
Good winds :rolleyes:


You should add also:

Dos cervezas por favor = Dos cervezas por favor ;)

Muchos saludos and cheers
Mario

Cheers

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#60 elalmadelpiloto

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 01:16 AM

Hola Mario,
¿Como estas? Tienes razon. Dos cervezas una para ti y otra para mi. A ver si en el futuro nos ponemos de acuerdo para vernos aqui en Buenos Aires o en Mar del Plata o bien tener la posibilidad de que pueda visitarte allá. No se como vamos ha hacer para tomarlas y al mismo tiempo volar nuestras Revos leyendo el manual Mega Fly y poniendonos de acuerdo en que idioma cantar las maniobras. :blink: :P :huh: :unsure: :rolleyes:
Un abrazo
El Alma del Piloto - The Pilot´s Soul - AKA member - http://www.elalmadelpiloto.com




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