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#1 elalmadelpiloto

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 09:50 AM

:rolleyes: Hi, Kite-mates,
I would like to say that on a one hand we have this issue: "Translation into spanish Version" for people who do not speak English.
On the other hand: " The Calls Commands" by the pilot leader - on the fly field.
By the first one, I think that I have to translate the commands, not the name of maneuvers;obviously including a Glossary or Vocabulary in Spanish Version.
But, I think that is very different from "How to work in a fly field with international pilots".
My opinion is that the best choice is that the Leader Pilot has to do an agreement with their International kites-mates on how Calls the Commands! - ...English, Spanish, French, German, language and so on!
Eventually, in that way we hav 2 version on the same Manual: "English + Spanish" and we have the opoortunity to know, understand and learn the maneuvers and commands on both languages.
Expecting for news!
Best wishes to all
Gustavo Di Si :rolleyes:
El Alma del Piloto - The Pilotīs Soul - AKA member - http://www.elalmadelpiloto.com

#2 Kitelife

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 10:33 AM

I still feel very strongly that the Spanish version of the manual should have a glossary (explanation) of the basic calls in both English and Spanish.

- Right
- Left
- Up
- Down
- 180

Otherwise, when we meet... There will have no reference to this, and the basics will have to be learned on the spot.

Thoughts?

John Barresi

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#3 Mike

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for you comments Gustavo.

All the native English speakers on this forum seem to agree. It would be good if we could hear from some more non-English speakers too.

When I get back from the Great Lakes Kite Festival next week, we will finish the Spanish version. So non-English speakers get another week to speak.
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#4 Fernan

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 04:57 AM

:rolleyes: Hi, Kite-mates,
I would like to say that on a one hand we have this issue: "Translation into spanish Version" for people who do not speak English.
On the other hand: " The Calls Commands" by the pilot leader - on the fly field.
By the first one, I think that I have to translate the commands, not the name of maneuvers;obviously including a Glossary or Vocabulary in Spanish Version.
But, I think that is very different from "How to work in a fly field with international pilots".
My opinion is that the best choice is that the Leader Pilot has to do an agreement with their International kites-mates on how Calls the Commands! - ...English, Spanish, French, German, language and so on!
Eventually, in that way we hav 2 version on the same Manual: "English + Spanish" and we have the opoortunity to know, understand and learn the maneuvers and commands on both languages.
Expecting for news!
Best wishes to all
Gustavo Di Si :rolleyes:


I am in agreement with gustavo, I make mine its opinion. Pardon by my English.

#5 Mike

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 08:54 AM

Gustavo and Fernan,
If you are in France, and you don't speak French, you can fly with your new French friends.
You all understand what a "Blender" is.
You do not all understand what "left" is.
You now have to learn a new word for "left".

When you are in Germany, again, you all know what a "Blender" is, but you have to learn a new word for "left" again.

Since we have all agreed on the words "Blender", "Pinwheel", etc. Wouldn't it be easier if we all agreed on a few more words:
Left, Right, Up, Down, 180?
Mike Kory:
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#6 Fernan

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 10:45 AM

To my it interests to me, to learn all the figures and you order in English, is good for my. But serious very good, to have a translation, official in Spanish, Spain this growing much the interest by comets revolution, every day are but pilots.

#7 MrDenny

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 11:46 AM

Do you use the terms starboard and port? They are used around boats and aircraft. They of course mean left or right but relative to the bow or front of the craft. I don’t know but it seems that they would be international in nature as well. Instead of odd kite left even right a simple port or starboard [relative to the LE of the kite] could be called out.
Just thinking out loud.

Denny #12

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#8 RevWizard

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 01:03 PM

Do you use the terms starboard and port? They are used around boats and aircraft. They of course mean left or right but relative to the bow or front of the craft. I don’t know but it seems that they would be international in nature as well. Instead of odd kite left even right a simple port or starboard [relative to the LE of the kite] could be called out.
Just thinking out loud.

The only thing I know that is common internationally there is the color.
RED is always left or port.
GREEN is always right or starboard.

English German Spanish French(not sure)
port backbord babor babord
starboard steuerbord estribor tribord

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#9 Mr. Guatemalan kiteFlier

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:56 PM

Greetings! Amigos Kite fliers from all nations!!!
This is the first time, I am in this forum, and would like to express my "very personal opinion", about the MEGA-FLY FIGURES MANUAL, that is about to be translated into the wonderfull Spanish Language. As some of you know, I am from Guatemala, and of course my first language is Espaņol. But let me tell you how I feel about the spanish translation or ANY other language that comes aound this manual.-
The original Manual was created in English, and I agree with Gustavo in the way that he is doing his translation, but it is of OUTMOST IMPORTANCE, to have a "UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE". In this case, it is logical and factible to use the English Language as such. ONLY FOR THE COMANDS! in other words, all the Revolution kite pilots of the world, will or would have to learn and memorise, if posible, the comands in English.
I have suggested to Gustavo, if permisible, to writte another or second manual EXPLICITLY AND TOTALY IN SPANISH, for the entire Spanish Speaking community, and with some glosary or explanations of the English comands, for when the opportunity arises to fly in a team with people of different nationalities, and languages, THEN, WE ALL, APPLY, THE UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE.-
We all kite fliers, of the world, will have to agree in a COMMON LANGUAGE. For the commands only.
and please, don't make something simple, difficult, by adding comments that bring nothing positive.
I can also say that soon sometime, we will hear this manual been writting in another language or languages, and why not, it belongs to the world. (ALLREADY)
We have solution. Not problems.
I'd like to add: Saludos to Gustavo, keep up with the good work.
Hector Herrera
"Mr. Guatemalan KiteFlier".-
*El Artesano Del Viento*

#10 elalmadelpiloto

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 09:41 AM

:rolleyes: Hi, kite-mates
I agree with Hector, that the universal language is English. My point of view is about the "translation into Spanish Version" for people (everybody) who do not speak English . ĄThe manual is a guide! Everybothy are agree? So, I think that maybe the solution could be: I translate all the manual into Spanish language putting a note that the "Purpose of the Author" is to use the same terminology on maneuvers and commands names, when two o more international pilots decided flying Revos in team. I include a note recommending memorize the maneuvers and commands names in English. (common international language)
Please remember that the manual, English or Spanish version is a guide.
Expecting for news,
Good winds, :rolleyes:
El Alma del Piloto - The Pilotīs Soul - AKA member - http://www.elalmadelpiloto.com

#11 Mike

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 10:57 AM

Gustavo, sounds good to me.
If you add Left, Right, Up, Down, 180 (we say "one eighty" not "one hundred eighty") to your translation I think that will be great.
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#12 RevWizard

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 11:24 AM

Gustavo, sounds good to me.
If you add Left, Right, Up, Down, 180 (we say "one eighty" not "one hundred eighty") to your translation I think that will be great.

As is used in aviation air traffic control(ATC) number are pronounced individually!
180 is "one eight zero" not what you mentioned.
90 is "nine zero" not ninety.
OK?
I also notice that "nine" is often pronounce "niner" in ATC, at least it was when I worked at an ATC.
It is all for clarity and safety in ATC.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#13 Kitelife

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 02:33 PM

The problem with that is quick mental-association... I know a lot of time when we fly Rev team in the US, we'll say something like:

"1, 2, 7 and 8 do XXX"

This generally comes up only when we're being creative (impromptu moves).

1-8-0 and 3-6-0 just don't sit right with me.

I feel moved to say, we're not in aviation... We're kite fliers. ;)

John Barresi

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#14 RevWizard

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 03:08 PM

The problem with that is quick mental-association... I know a lot of time when we fly Rev team in the US, we'll say something like:

"1, 2, 7 and 8 do XXX"

This generally comes up only when we're being creative (impromptu moves).

1-8-0 and 3-6-0 just don't sit right with me.

I feel moved to say, we're not in aviation... We're kite fliers. ;)

John,
It is not a matter of aviation, but more a matter of a foreigner being able to easily understand you.
If one speaking Spanish to you says; "cientos ochenta", do you understand it as easy as "uno ocho cero"?

Now you could really get messed up with German because they switch the number places around.
Forty five(45) would translate to German placements using English as "five and forty"(fuenf und vierzig).

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
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13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#15 Mike

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 03:36 PM

Like "benefits" and "pinwheel", "one eighty" is already the standard. Not only among kite fliers, but the rest of the general public will say turn a "one eighty" not turn a "one eight zero".
I believe that "one eighty" and "three sixty" are already the standard and should remain.

Should we add "ninety" to the dictionary as well?

What's the total list of commands we need to add?
left
right
up
down
180
360
90

270?-if it's very rarely used, let's try to simplify things and leave it out.
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#16 RevWizard

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 03:51 PM

Like "benefits" and "pinwheel", "one eighty" is already the standard. Not only among kite fliers, but the rest of the general public will say turn a "one eighty" not turn a "one eight zero".
I believe that "one eighty" and "three sixty" are already the standard and should remain.

Should we add "ninety" to the dictionary as well?

What's the total list of commands we need to add?
left
right
up
down
180
360
90

270?-if it's very rarely used, let's try to simplify things and leave it out.

OK let us go this way dropping the word hundred. I hope our Spanish speaking friends agree.

270?
If I recall correctly Mark used the command "Unwrap to the Top". Seems to me I did a 270 to get there. I think was facing right and had a 3/4 twist in my lines.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
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World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#17 Kitelife

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:12 PM

No on 270, and I've not used 90 calls to date.

Far as I can see, the only command calls that need to be shown in English are

left
right
up
down
180
360

And of course, the team maneuver names (Blender, etc).

The only one that will challenging, which I use quite a lot... "FACE"

X face right, X face left, etc... Common calls, I think.

My thought is that the primary need for translation is to understand the moves... Local calling will develop itself, and I still feel strongly that the base calls should be straight up English... It is the most common international language from country to country, far as I know.

John Barresi

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#18 Jim Foster

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 08:24 PM

I have traveled some, (28 foreign countries) and found that if someone speaks a language other than the native language of their country, it us usually English. If I was going to publish something and it could be in one language only, it would certainly have to be english.

No matter how many languages you publish the Team Manual in, when you have a mix of people, the common language will most surely be English.

For what it's worth, Jim
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#19 Mike

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 03:01 AM

No on 270, and I've not used 90 calls to date.
...
The only one that will challenging, which I use quite a lot... "FACE"
X face right, X face left, etc... Common calls, I think.


How about how for a Radar? Seems you might want 90 for that.
In an international situation, would the abbreviated "X right, X left" work?
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#20 RevWizard

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 08:20 AM

I have traveled some, (28 foreign countries) and found that if someone speaks a language other than the native language of their country, it us usually English. If I was going to publish something and it could be in one language only, it would certainly have to be english.

No matter how many languages you publish the Team Manual in, when you have a mix of people, the common language will most surely be English.

For what it's worth, Jim

I stopped counting countries long ago. I have been to quite a number. I have never been in the contents South America or Africa.

That is very dependent on who you are dealing with. If it is for business, at a hotel or a restaurant, English is prevalent. When it comes down to the local people which tourist don't deal that often with it varies dramatically.
In Spain most often French will be their second language, probably because they border France. However, that is not totally correct because in addition to speaking Castellion(proper Spanish), they will speak their local language such as Catalan, Basque, Valencian, and etc.
In Southern France, you will find that probably the most popular second language is Spanish.
Italy is a special case and they have their local languages that in some cases are far from the proper Italian. There are areas were German prevails as a second language and in one area where is officially the second language. Their are other areas where French prevails as the second language. Tourism also tends push which second language prevails. However a substantial number of Italians speak English and quite well at that.

I think there should be manuals in at least English, French, Japanese and Spanish with all command names in English.
Internationally recognized terms should be 90, 180, 360, left, right, up, down and face(or leading edge). Maybe some more to come.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





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