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Revolution quality?


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#1 Fool

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:32 AM

I've been flying revolution kites since they came to the kite scene and have some with many many many hours on them. And while they do last the test of time and abuse I ask myself why haven't they updated their build techniques to fine tune the finished product?

-Unfinished ends of the leading edge Dacron along with many of the Dacron reinforcements where you will often see fraying.
This is more of an eye sore and pet peave of mine when building my own kites. It could be fixed by a 1/4" hem before sewing. They wouldn't even have to be sewn just a little seam tape so they won't catch as you take the spars in and out of the sleeve.

-Knots
Bridle and flying line hang up on them while flying tricks and recovering from dead position on the ground. This I fix with an "after-market" end cap called the "Pekr fitting" where the knots are actually inside the cap out of the way from flying lines and bridles. Simple yet elegant solution that Revolution could incorporate for the comp. fliers to prevent tangles while flying a routine.

-Spar finish
A fresh sail is a beautiful thing and many people are delicate in how they store their kites. Even with that in mind landing the kites will cause the down spars to slide across the sail and wear off the finish from the sail. Another simple solution would be sanding the finish of the down tubes so there aren't any ridges left from processing. Or adding another heavy coat of epoxy resin to give them a soft finish.

Over all I'm happy with revolution kites for designing and offering some really fun kites. I just wish they could be built with a little more attention to details.
Chris Taylor

#2 RevWizard

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:12 PM

I've been flying revolution kites since they came to the kite scene and have some with many many many hours on them. And while they do last the test of time and abuse I ask myself why haven't they updated their build techniques to fine tune the finished product?

-Unfinished ends of the leading edge Dacron along with many of the Dacron reinforcements where you will often see fraying.
This is more of an eye sore and pet peave of mine when building my own kites. It could be fixed by a 1/4" hem before sewing. They wouldn't even have to be sewn just a little seam tape so they won't catch as you take the spars in and out of the sleeve.

-Knots
Bridle and flying line hang up on them while flying tricks and recovering from dead position on the ground. This I fix with an "after-market" end cap called the "Pekr fitting" where the knots are actually inside the cap out of the way from flying lines and bridles. Simple yet elegant solution that Revolution could incorporate for the comp. fliers to prevent tangles while flying a routine.

-Spar finish
A fresh sail is a beautiful thing and many people are delicate in how they store their kites. Even with that in mind landing the kites will cause the down spars to slide across the sail and wear off the finish from the sail. Another simple solution would be sanding the finish of the down tubes so there aren't any ridges left from processing. Or adding another heavy coat of epoxy resin to give them a soft finish.

Over all I'm happy with revolution kites for designing and offering some really fun kites. I just wish they could be built with a little more attention to details.

I presume they could do this, but seeing that this is a medium production item, it would surely raise the price $30.00 or more.
I would rather pay $30 less and fix it myself and/or live with it.

1 - some have this problem, some don't. The flame of a lighter will stop it.
2 - I fix it myself when and if it bothers me.
3 - I would not want to sand the rods, too much trouble and it could weaken them. I live with this.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
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13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#3 Stephen Hoath

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:25 PM

Hi Chris

Whilst i can understand your sentiment I am not sure that the situations you describe are sufficiently significant/large scale to require a manufacturer fix. To change the situations you describe (quite elegantly) at a manufacturing level I would suspect would be quite a lengthy and I suspect costly process. Now this may be the right thing to do if the situations you describe were a universal "issue". However, I am not convinced that the majority of Rev fliers (and they probably don't subscribe to this forum) are in the slightest bit concerned about knots catching when trick flying as they probably don't fly tricks. The same would be true for the sail wear on "average" usage (is this a beach fliers issue only?). I suspect that the majority of people who "chat" on this forum would probably not be described as the average consumer and are very interested in the fixes you describe, but then again, we are happy to try them for ourselves.

So whilst I agree that your suggestions seem to be very effective fixes for the issues you outline, I am not sure that it is practicle/cost effective/ or necessary to apply them on mass. Of course, Rev maybe missing a trick by not suppling a "Top of the Line" ;)/Platinum version product for those in the market who would appreciate this kind of detail and who would be prepared to pay the extra price for the extra spec and there is of course the ever present "quad sticks" debate.

On a personal note I would be very interested to see a picture of the end cap solution you refer to (cause yes I do fly a lot of tricks) and I believe that another spar manufacturer does provide sanded rods if you are finding sail rub an issue.

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#4 Jim Foster

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 08:59 PM

I keep a can of fast drying clear spray paint. If a spar looses it's finish, or for any reason the carbon starts coming off on the sail, I re-coat the spar with clear. Keeps the spars smooth and helps keep the sail nice.

Jim
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#5 beach

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:19 PM

Well, well, well, we at Revolution always listen to the fliers and your concerns are valid up to a point, but the biggest problem is we are a small business in a huge world of business and we have to look at cost because we want this kite in everyones hands not just a few. We still make our kite right here in San Diego a mircle in itself because of the issues on manufacturing here in the US, Im not making excuse by any means but some of the stuff you mention is just to much time for us to do, and would drive the price of the kite thru the roof. What I will share with you is as of the speaking we are working on a higher end model for all of us out there who are willing to put our money where are mouths are, cause Im with you on some of these issues and as a matter of fact the caps your speaking of can you tell me where to get these cause one of the upgrades will be a no knot system so my friend I hear you and know of the issues but for a stock kite I still feel you'd be hard pressed to find better. Once again please tell me more of these caps so we can see if it's doable for us at Revolution and so all knows there is even a better unit on the drawing board so some of these issues will be dealt with my friend..............Ben 619-750-8770

#6 Baloo

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:52 PM

I think you get plenty of "bang for your buck" with the current Revs, as Stephen mentioned though there is probably a market for a Gold Medallion type of package.

Best of luck with it Ben.

#7 REVflyer

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:08 AM

I also want the double secret unobtainium edition Ben, it's been at least a week or more since I've acquired a new REV!!!

no knot bridle system, smooth tapered down spars, little covers over the bungie knots, 14-16" training wheels, 1/2 ounce polyester sail, ultra light spars but with solid Carbon ferrules, in a slightly vented or an adjustable venting model. I hate that leading edge fraying too!

make mine if Red, Black and white Baressi-style please, (or a cool dragon "Masterpiece" motif)

call Barbara for payment, (she loves you ALMOST more than me and I'm on an allowance!)

can I have it before close of business tomorrow?
(I'm going to Coral Springs Fl for a poker party over the weekend and could fly it before nightfall when the other players arise)

Can you get the brothers to sign & number it?

Could you let Scottie Weider test fly/tune it for me? That way I know it flies "right" for somebody, even if it doesn't work for me!

How much extra if I get the very first one you make???

#8 Fool

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:52 AM

Ben HERE is that Pekr fitting I was speaking of and HERE is the site showing how the creator of the fitting attaches them to his Revs.

Simple, cheap to produce, and very clean.

However, I prefer to tie mine so they loop through the sail without having to larkshead the bungee. HERE's a look at a homebuilt kite I incorporated this fitting with. That's just a grossgrain ribbon sewn in a loop to the sail for the bungee to hold.

John M. Sanding the ridges off the down spars takes about a minute with 600 grit sand paper and is only removing a fine layer of resin that causes the ridges. The spars themselves lose no structure so they do not weaken. You're just altering the finish.
If rev doesn't want to do this, due to money for labor and time in the factory, perhaps they could put instructions in the manual for those who would rather DIY so they won't wear the finish off the Polycarbonate coated sails. Once the finish is worn off the fabric is left to fend for itself in the sun and becomes porous to the wind. (that white stuff near the verticals on your Icarex PC31 fabric is the coating from the fabric.)

Revolution wouldn't have to make these changes to continue selling their kites but it surely would help in the long run to provide the customer with the best possible kite for their money. Not a whole lot has changed since the beginning but finding a better way create the finished product should always be a goal. You will always have the fans and followers who will back the originator but if for instance another company came along and offered a better built product for nearly the same price who would the newcomers go to? Think of the commercial by 3M? (or was it Dupont) where they say "we didn't invent this product we made it better". Perhaps because Revolution doesn't have much comparable competition with their style of kites, that has caused them to look past changing their build quality.
Chris Taylor

#9 PsychoJon

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 09:45 AM

Well, well, well, we at Revolution always listen to the fliers and your concerns are valid up to a point, but the biggest problem is we are a small business in a huge world of business and we have to look at cost because we want this kite in everyones hands not just a few. We still make our kite right here in San Diego a mircle in itself because of the issues on manufacturing here in the US, Im not making excuse by any means but some of the stuff you mention is just to much time for us to do, and would drive the price of the kite thru the roof. What I will share with you is as of the speaking we are working on a higher end model for all of us out there who are willing to put our money where are mouths are, cause Im with you on some of these issues and as a matter of fact the caps your speaking of can you tell me where to get these cause one of the upgrades will be a no knot system so my friend I hear you and know of the issues but for a stock kite I still feel you'd be hard pressed to find better. Once again please tell me more of these caps so we can see if it's doable for us at Revolution and so all knows there is even a better unit on the drawing board so some of these issues will be dealt with my friend..............Ben 619-750-8770



Higher end model??? Any other details you can share like when it will be out or when we can know more???

#10 RevWizard

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:05 PM

I also want the double secret unobtainium edition Ben, it's been at least a week or more since I've acquired a new REV!!!

no knot bridle system, smooth tapered down spars, little covers over the bungie knots, 14-16" training wheels, 1/2 ounce polyester sail, ultra light spars but with solid Carbon ferrules, in a slightly vented or an adjustable venting model. I hate that leading edge fraying too!

make mine if Red, Black and white Baressi-style please, (or a cool dragon "Masterpiece" motif)

call Barbara for payment, (she loves you ALMOST more than me and I'm on an allowance!)

can I have it before close of business tomorrow?
(I'm going to Coral Springs Fl for a poker party over the weekend and could fly it before nightfall when the other players arise)

Can you get the brothers to sign & number it?

Could you let Scottie Weider test fly/tune it for me? That way I know it flies "right" for somebody, even if it doesn't work for me!

How much extra if I get the very first one you make???

Well said!

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#11 antman

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:07 PM

well so far i have a few revs and the only downfall to me are the top screens . however i only ripped 1 screen out of all ive ever had in the few years ive flown revs all of my other kites are holding up well if you ask my opion rev should find a tougher screen to use for guys like me that fly in harsh areas if not as stock as an option when buying a kite
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#12 RevWizard

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:11 PM

Well, well, well, we at Revolution always listen to the fliers and your concerns are valid up to a point, but the biggest problem is we are a small business in a huge world of business and we have to look at cost because we want this kite in everyones hands not just a few. We still make our kite right here in San Diego a mircle in itself because of the issues on manufacturing here in the US, Im not making excuse by any means but some of the stuff you mention is just to much time for us to do, and would drive the price of the kite thru the roof. What I will share with you is as of the speaking we are working on a higher end model for all of us out there who are willing to put our money where are mouths are, cause Im with you on some of these issues and as a matter of fact the caps your speaking of can you tell me where to get these cause one of the upgrades will be a no knot system so my friend I hear you and know of the issues but for a stock kite I still feel you'd be hard pressed to find better. Once again please tell me more of these caps so we can see if it's doable for us at Revolution and so all knows there is even a better unit on the drawing board so some of these issues will be dealt with my friend..............Ben 619-750-8770

How about offering for an extra price a tuned version of the standard production versions? Labeled: Specially Tuned by Ben D'Antonio or Joe Hadzicki
I might suggest this to be a special order item.
I doubt I would be in the market for one, but I am sure that there are a few guys out there that would be in the market for one.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#13 Kitelife

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:23 PM

I've flown stock Revs since 1991, and have gotten a good long life out of every one of them. ;)

Seriously, I don't change anything on any of my Revs... All right out of the bag, except for adding adjustments on the handles.

John Barresi

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#14 MrDenny

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:35 PM

well so far i have a few revs and the only downfall to me are the top screens . however i only ripped 1 screen out of all ive ever had in the few years ive flown revs all of my other kites are holding up well if you ask my opion rev should find a tougher screen to use for guys like me that fly in harsh areas if not as stock as an option when buying a kite


Yea, I had that happen too. What did you do? I wish I could find someone to sew a new screen in for a reasonable price. Seem a shame not to be able to use th kite any more. :(

Denny #12

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#15 Harrier

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 12:55 PM

Interesting thread, friend Skunk is hard on his Revs, he gets through sails like others get through food, many are patched etc.
But as he says "if you cant do what you want with them, no point in having them".
Forget Gold plated etc. how about Titanium?
The mesh does seem to fail after a bit but they will still fly even with a camera aboard. :)
I have just got hold of some glass fibre based mesh that seems very strong, will now have to see how it holds up to abuse.

http://www.flickr.co...2kap/443807373/

#16 RevWizard

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 01:19 PM

Yea, I had that happen too. What did you do? I wish I could find someone to sew a new screen in for a reasonable price. Seem a shame not to be able to use th kite any more. :(

If you aren't critical about the looks, you can easily sew new screening material over the torn area. To replace the whole leading edge screen is no fun as you have to take so many things apart first before you can start sewing in the new screen.

When it is only small screen rips at the folds of the vertical spars, I fly it anyway.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#17 AldenMiler

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:16 PM

Ben, sign me up for the "test" version of the new kite! I'm way behind these guys in the quantity of kites that I have.

-Alden
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#18 antman

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:27 PM

man harrier nice KAP pics my only question is the rev camera addinmg alot of weight ??
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#19 awindofchange

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 05:32 PM

I've flown stock Revs since 1991, and have gotten a good long life out of every one of them. ;)

Seriously, I don't change anything on any of my Revs... All right out of the bag, except for adding adjustments on the handles.


So John, does that mean that your 1.5 SLE still has that um...SLE rod in it? **ducks and runs laughing** :lol:

I have been flying Rev's for over 7 years now. Started with an EXP and now have over 30 Rev's in my bag(s). I think the suggestions that are being made on this thread are great....but disagree with having Revolution incorporate them into their current production. I don't think it would be worth raising the cost of the product to incorporate a couple of nice additions when they really aren't that necessary for someone to enjoy a couple of years worth of flying a Rev. I do agree that these things would help make the product a bit better but then again, adding on flashy paint or extra graphics or custom aluminum wheels to a car would make it that much nicer as well, heck just stop with all the options and make every amenity a standard item on every car, that way when you purchased your car it would be the best product it can be. Is the added cost worth it? Only the end user would be able to answer that. But with kites you have the ability to add those special custom additions to make your kites just that much more personal and enjoyable if you want to take the time to do them. My Revs....I fly them just the way Rev sends them to me. If the ends get a little frayed that just adds character to the kite. My Masterpiece Rev's do get a little more attention to the leading edge ends with a lighter to keep those special items looking new but those are special. The normal rev's get flown as they are...and if they get worn out (or a broken spar happens to stab through and tear the kite in half) then it means that I get to have the fun of getting a new sail and some new colors. :)

Just my two cents worth...well maybe one cent.... :lol:

#20 Kitelife

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 05:53 PM

So John, does that mean that your 1.5 SLE still has that um...SLE rod in it? **ducks and runs laughing**

Oh ho ho... Good one Kent. ;)

John Barresi

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