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B Series Pro and task specific kites


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#1 kwmf

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:12 PM

Its 23h00 at night, my back is hurting, there's nothing on TV and I'm bored ... So I figured I'd ask some questions I've wondered about. They're not entirely relevant to me immediately, but they may be in the future.

Firstly, since I can't walk into a shop and see one, what are the differences between a 1.5 B series and the Pro series? What are the benefits of these differences?

Secondly, does anyone have task specific kites that are permanently rigged for street kiting, the beach, etc. I know about low wind and SUL, but I'm wondering about other tasks. If you do have such specific kites, what task and how is it setup or modified for that task.

Lastly, anything I should be sure to keep in mind, modify, etc when my indoor Rev arrives?

-Steven

#2 Watty

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:48 PM

Its 23h00 at night, my back is hurting, there's nothing on TV and I'm bored ... So I figured I'd ask some questions I've wondered about. They're not entirely relevant to me immediately, but they may be in the future.

Firstly, since I can't walk into a shop and see one, what are the differences between a 1.5 B series and the Pro series? What are the benefits of these differences?


I can't remember the specifics, but I'm sure someone will fill in the spots that I miss. Basically, the B-Series is made by the usual factory sewers. The B-Pro is sewn by Bazzer, a world class kite maker who also has various Masterpiece revs. There are a few quality things that Bazzer did to improve the overall quality of the kite. Now I do not own a B-Pro, so I can not say exactly how this benefits the kite as I have not spent a large amount of time on one.

Secondly, does anyone have task specific kites that are permanently rigged for street kiting, the beach, etc. I know about low wind and SUL, but I'm wondering about other tasks. If you do have such specific kites, what task and how is it setup or modified for that task.


Not really. When I am street kiting, I fly my usual full-sail B-Series with no modifications. The only kites I own that have any modifications are my indoor kites.

Lastly, anything I should be sure to keep in mind, modify, etc when my indoor Rev arrives?


There are a few things that I do with all of my indoor revs.
1. Extend the leaders on the kite itself. Basically, instead of using pigtails on your handles, you use them directly on the kite. The reason for this is that it keeps you handles a little more clean, and reduce the chance for snags. The reason you would do this on an indoor rev and not an outdoor rev is that indoors, you are probably flying on short lines. So, adjustments are still easy to make by simply catching and tossing the kite, something you cannot always/easily do outdoors on 120' lines. The pigtails that I make for my Rev indoor is nothing fancy. I don't use sleeving, I just use this generic SLK line. I don't even know what brand strength or anything it is.... I'm not really worried about a slight amount of stretch in a 5 inch piece of string, plus it's indoors, so I'm not really worried about it becoming overwhelmed. One thing to mention though, is that the top end caps will be held on by a piece of string instead of a bungee. over time, this string gets worn down and breaks. This is another reason that I use my generic SLK line, because it is cheap, and if one snaps, I've got a big spool of it. If you are not cheap like me, you could use 150 or 200 lb shanti or LPG line for the pigtails.

2. Glue erasers to the bottom end caps. This is something that I have been doing for a long time. Basically, you can cut off the erasers from some pencils (I like the pink ones) and super-glue them to the bottom end caps. This comes in handy when flying in a gymnasium or area with hard wood, or linoleum floors. The erasers provide traction between the bottom end caps and the floor. Without the traction, it becomes very annoying when the kite keeps sliding around and falling over, especially if you are giving a lesson. If you are not going to be flying in a place with hard floors, you don't need to worry about it. For example, Steve D. flies in an indoor horse ring. In a setting like this the erasers are not necessary.

3. This is one modification that I don't think is necessary any more but I will mention it any way. I know when I bought my last Rev Indoor, I had to custom order it with the outdoor over-the-rod end caps. I think the Rev Indoor comes standard with these now. But just in case I am wrong, the old rev indoors had end caps that went inside the rod (sort of like the SLE). I didn't like these because it caused the ends of the rods to chip, and it gave no solid base for me to glue my erasers. So, I simply switched them to the regular end caps you would find on a Rev 1.5.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#3 REVflyer

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 04:21 AM

Steven,
As your collection of kites grow, you will find little corners of fun that can be better exploited with specialized/custom equipment or your own unique modifications.

The factory and your retailer can assist you when special ordering a new kite. But you to have enough knowledge/experience to properly explain your desires, I've even submitted sketches and diagrams as an example, not about the graphics either but about design modifications I am requesting AWAY from the approved standard. I want any new kite I acquire lighter in weight than the product for the masses, no matter if durability or a significant narrowing of the wind range is necessary to meet this expectation. I live in the land of no wind (or the entire sky is a swirling cyclone vacuum-cleaner commercial -which is even worse!)

My B-series Pro kites are specially set-up for competition, the full suite for most any wind range which may be encountered. French Bridles, Magic sticks, race frames, SUL leading edges

Others kites are for showboating, one Bazzer Flame masterpiece is just tuned for throwing and catching, like entertaining crowds on the boardwalk.

I have Super SULs for when nobody could fly, but it's our own homebuilt model and again made for a very specific and narrow set of parameters. Most would describe it's flight dynamics as way too twitchy, the ryv 1point6, a no-sew icarex oversized sail version with tapered spars. The solar system kites (pictured) lock together in flight thru the use of rare earth magnets affixed to the vertical rod end-caps. Those two sails cost me 1,700 bucks to have printed commercially and we only flew them one time during the Smithsonian Kite festival judging in 2000.

I have a mini-vent SUL 1.5 that was made to fly in no wind but still absorb a sudden gust, modified an old SUL before the mid-vent was commercially available.

Then there are three 6-pack stacks of mini-revs, again some configured for no-wind and some for when the coast guard won't even go out!

I have sacreficial kites for plunging into the ocean or giving lessons on hard-packed terrain. I occasionally teach lessons on my 50th birthday present, a Gibian masterpiece, (it's as heavy as a tarp sailed revolution kite can be, but it is also very durable!).

I have an all black custom supersonic adjusted for maximum flick-flaking relability, that's used in hot tricks competitions against those show-off dualie pilots.

Then there are kites designed to match a freestyle routine, like Joel Shultz Beautiful Evil, the misses was mad about the price of the costume not the kite! I flew a friend's homebuilt orcon indoor rev once, that immediately cost me a new revolution kite bag plus a huge industrial light table, that is another example of a kite designed to do one thing only. It flies like a standard rev outside, using a bridle and training wheels, but you could fly it from a wheelchair or standing on one foot! I had to have it!!! Bad news about the deal? You bet! Orcon is about as durable as kleenex!

The old days were much easier as a pilot Steven, you always flew a full sail or you hacked holes into it.

The factory is flexible about design deviations, their product line has expanded magnificently to make many more choices available and Revolution's overall quality control has improved too. I quit make my own kites and routinely hang-out with a whole group of great builders from the WOW club. That about sums up my position, I can buy it better than I could do it myself. That wasn't always the case in the early days.

Lastly, when you can get everybody onboard with a standard size, line length, etc. you can get a mega-fly together. That's about as much fun as you can have in the country without needing a bail bondsman and OJ Simpson's lawyer!

Oh, in answer to your question about the difference in the B-series and Bazzer Pro.

I was a huge skeptic when this new model first came out, laughing with(or was that AT?) Dantonio about another clever marketing ploy since he's joined the firm. He just smiled and handed me one to try out. "Not your handles or tuning Flailer, try it out exactly as handed to you!"

You can FEEL the quality/difference in flight.
~ The trailing edge is stiffer (it knifes backwards easier and cleaner), done by a changing the sewing technique stitching
~ the reinforcements and leading edge are turned under so they don't fray (visual appearance long-term).
~ each individual panel is oriented for stretch and bias, taped and then sewn. (sails should last and perform well for many sessions)

A bus will get you downtown but somehow Mercedes always manages to sell a few cars too. Do you need a mercedes? NO The Bus can get you whenever you want to go. Would you feel you'd wasted the money if you could afford a mercedes and bought one? NO, sometimes you get exactly what you pay for!!! A Bazzer pro-series kite is worth the extra cost. I didn't need it until I flew one, now I own one of each of 'em, they match visually in graphics and were created to my specific/unique expectations. How cool is that? Could I do it myself? Sure, but this is so much easier and to me worth the money. The best Revolution development to ever come with their logo on it. None of the masterpieces I own fly as nice as the Pro-series! These kites are home-runs and built just like you did it yourself as a master-class builder, every single aspect is perfection, best techniques, material usage and design parameters. Do you need this kite? Nope, the EXP (bus) will pick you up within the 30 minutes or so!

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#4 kitefantex

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:10 PM

Just don't fly your indoor outside when the wind dies down. One little gust and snap. I know.

Kitefantex aka Gumby





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