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Leading edge mesh durability & Race Rods


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#1 Wayne

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 05:02 AM

As one who has limited resources for new Rev's and wants to keep my kites for as long as practical, I got curious on the effects of Race Rods on the durability of leading edge mesh. A good friend has several Revs with torn mesh, with the tears forming at the joint with the sail (furthest from the leading edge). The sails involved are less than 2 years old, and at least one is a BPro. I have not yet had any similar damage. He uses RR's most of the time, as do I, but gets much more flying time than I. He also spreads his flying over a larger quivver of sails which should spread out the wear and tear. I am trying to understand what could be causing his damage. I understand that 2 factors are tight wrapping of the kite when stored, and crashes. I expect that flying in excessive wind can also cause this.

Is the use of Race Rods also a factor? For good or ill? I can imagine either the increased flexing putting localized stresses on the mesh, or the increased flexibility distributing the forces relative to a stiffer spar set. Any opinions which it is (or none of the above)?

Thanks for any help. I will likely not give up RR's regardless, but it might influence when I switch to a 3 wrap in higher winds.

Wayne Reed
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#2 REVflyer

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 05:48 AM

well the frame sticks don't touch the mesh in any spot, so how could that impact it?

the rods will wear on the back of the sail, anyplace they can wiggle in flight. If you want to stop the wiggle you need a couple of little belt loops placed so nothing is mobile. You can do it without sewing too! Use 9460 tape from 3M and some patience.

#3 big bri

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 06:38 AM

Hi Wayne,hows things my freind...

Ile take a look at mine later,Havent noticed any wear,but havent looked.

Ile report backPosted Image
BRIAN...

#4 Jim Foster

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 07:48 AM

When we put our Revs away, we place the vertical spars along the lower edge of the leading edge, then fold the kite rather than roll it, we no longer have a problem with the screen coming apart over time. I think that the screen is being cut by the leading edge material when the kite is rolled.

Just my two cents.
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#5 big bri

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:30 AM

Nope,NO WEAR here Wayne....thankfully

Checked them all this morning.

Jim does have a point i think.I dont fold the mesh.I roll/fold up,but no tight.Could be on to something.i also dont fly them that often.The team kites get the heavy work.

I hope you guys get sorted.

Say hi to all for me and if ever thers a surplus of Nut Brittle,,,,,,MMMmmm,well ya know who to send some to pal.

Watched a documentary about the squirrels in Central Park a few days ago.Debbie was grinning like a Cat.We always think about you and your good Mrs[barb i think]when we see the squirrels.

Happy days

BRIAN...

#6 Watty

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:21 AM

After five years of flying, I have never had this kind of damage, I almost always use Race Rods. What I believe causes this damage is the tight rolling when packing the kite, and the way you fold the kite when you take it down. Here are some tips to avoid it.

1. When taking down the kite, separate the leading edge spars roughly 2 inches apart leaving some extra space in the fold. This way, the kite is not going to be folded on the same exact spot every time.

2. Before rolling the kite up, place the two vertical spars on top of the leading edge. This will add a bit of structure to the the mesh area, and will add some thickness to the start of the roll, making it more difficult to roll too tightly.

3. Roll the kite up loosely.

After doing this for five years, I have never had a problem with the leading edge mesh.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#7 RevWizard

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:06 AM

After five years of flying, I have never had this kind of damage, I almost always use Race Rods. What I believe causes this damage is the tight rolling when packing the kite, and the way you fold the kite when you take it down. Here are some tips to avoid it.

1. When taking down the kite, separate the leading edge spars roughly 2 inches apart leaving some extra space in the fold. This way, the kite is not going to be folded on the same exact spot every time.

2. Before rolling the kite up, place the two vertical spars on top of the leading edge. This will add a bit of structure to the the mesh area, and will add some thickness to the start of the roll, making it more difficult to roll too tightly.

3. Roll the kite up loosely.

After doing this for five years, I have never had a problem with the leading edge mesh.

All three steps are very important to rolling up your REV properly.
If you see the screen split vertically, then this is a reason to believe that in particular step one is not being followed. The other two steps can influence this.

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#8 big bri

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:07 AM

After five years of flying, I have never had this kind of damage, I almost always use Race Rods. What I believe causes this damage is the tight rolling when packing the kite, and the way you fold the kite when you take it down. Here are some tips to avoid it.

1. When taking down the kite, separate the leading edge spars roughly 2 inches apart leaving some extra space in the fold. This way, the kite is not going to be folded on the same exact spot every time.

2. Before rolling the kite up, place the two vertical spars on top of the leading edge. This will add a bit of structure to the the mesh area, and will add some thickness to the start of the roll, making it more difficult to roll too tightly.

3. Roll the kite up loosely.

After doing this for five years, I have never had a problem with the leading edge mesh.



DITO,
My Pros havent had much use,but my Bs, none custom, ive flown the snot outa them and ther still in nice condition.I do look after them,Before,during and after flying.Not to suggest anyone else doesnt,im anal at times about it.
The advice above is i think how it should be done or very similar.
Just my 2peneths worth

BRIAN...

#9 Wayne

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:18 AM

It sounds like the folding/wrapping process is the key. As I have been doing it as Watty describes and have not experienced mesh damage, I guess I can continue as I have been with the Race Rods.

Brian,

When you and Deb get back to this side of the pond, Barb & I hope to fly with you again. I will even make a batch of my almond brittle if it will encourage you to get back here. I can't say I have much love for squirrels, but we enjoy good friends from both sides of the Atlantic (& Pacific). Take care and enjoy your new smoke-free life friend.

Wayne Reed
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#10 Kitelife

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:01 AM

After five years of flying, I have never had this kind of damage, I almost always use Race Rods. What I believe causes this damage is the tight rolling when packing the kite, and the way you fold the kite when you take it down. Here are some tips to avoid it.

1. When taking down the kite, separate the leading edge spars roughly 2 inches apart leaving some extra space in the fold. This way, the kite is not going to be folded on the same exact spot every time.

2. Before rolling the kite up, place the two vertical spars on top of the leading edge. This will add a bit of structure to the the mesh area, and will add some thickness to the start of the roll, making it more difficult to roll too tightly.

3. Roll the kite up loosely.

After doing this for five years, I have never had a problem with the leading edge mesh.

Watty covered it for me, all I can say is ditto, and take care not to poke your fingers into the mesh when handling. :)

John Barresi

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#11 quaa714

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 10:37 AM

As one who has limited resources for new Rev's and wants to keep my kites for as long as practical, I got curious on the effects of Race Rods on the durability of leading edge mesh. A good friend has several Revs with torn mesh, with the tears forming at the joint with the sail (furthest from the leading edge). The sails involved are less than 2 years old, and at least one is a BPro. I have not yet had any similar damage. He uses RR's most of the time, as do I, but gets much more flying time than I. He also spreads his flying over a larger quivver of sails which should spread out the wear and tear. I am trying to understand what could be causing his damage. I understand that 2 factors are tight wrapping of the kite when stored, and crashes. I expect that flying in excessive wind can also cause this.

Is the use of Race Rods also a factor? For good or ill? I can imagine either the increased flexing putting localized stresses on the mesh, or the increased flexibility distributing the forces relative to a stiffer spar set. Any opinions which it is (or none of the above)?

Thanks for any help. I will likely not give up RR's regardless, but it might influence when I switch to a 3 wrap in higher winds.


Wayne............
No need to pull punches here, you could have mentioned me by name!:innocent::kid_loved: It's all good!!!!!!
I just fly my kites hard, in all conditions and pretty much just roll em on up when done. After that, what happens, happens.
Should I take better care care....yea!
Will I? Probably not.
But, without a doubt, you'll never hear me complain or see me without a grin on my face.

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
av-1950.jpg


#12 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:04 AM

Watty covered it for me, all I can say is ditto, and take care not to poke your fingers into the mesh when handling. :)


If, 10 years down the line, as with our last set of sails, the mesh fails, what can one say?

I had worried that there may be gradual degenerative issues but a recent post suggested that, with the mesh, that was not an issue.

As JB suggests, just try to avoid poking fingers/spars into the mesh. I would also suggest protecting the ends of the folded kites from impact... Don't stand those kite bags on end!

Felix

#13 Wayne

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:07 PM

Wayne............
No need to pull punches here, you could have mentioned me by name!Posted ImagePosted Image It's all good!!!!!!
I just fly my kites hard, in all conditions and pretty much just roll em on up when done. After that, what happens, happens.
Should I take better care care....yea!
Will I? Probably not.
But, without a doubt, you'll never hear me complain or see me without a grin on my face.


Rich,

As long as you are having fun, I would never say you are not doing it right. I've seen that grin - you're doing it right!Posted Image

I just want to maximize the lifetime of my kites as I don't intend to inventory as many as you do. This is the same tendency I had with my windsurfing, keeping my sails in good shape long after they were state-of-the-art, therefore denying myself the benefits of the newer designs.
You fly them more, while I store them more so optimal packing up is probably more benefit for me than you. At least I also grin alot when I can get out there.

Wayne Reed
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#14 Watty

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 05:48 PM

Wayne............
No need to pull punches here, you could have mentioned me by name!:innocent::kid_loved: It's all good!!!!!!
I just fly my kites hard, in all conditions and pretty much just roll em on up when done. After that, what happens, happens.
Should I take better care care....yea!
Will I? Probably not.
But, without a doubt, you'll never hear me complain or see me without a grin on my face.


Haha! I should have known. I've seen Barnacle Bill XD

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#15 jburka

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 04:52 AM

This comes up from time to time. The best thing you can do is to make sure that the joints in the leading edge have plenty of folding room -- pull the outer leading edge sticks out an inch or two before you try to fold the kite into thirds. I can't think of any of my post '91 revs that have rips in the mesh.

#16 Wayne

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:29 AM

Haha! I should have known. I've seen Barnacle Bill XD


Watty,

In light of that, perhaps we should add to your guidelines:
For longest life of the kite - Avoid contact with sharp objects and unwilling people while flyingPosted Image

Wayne Reed
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#17 quaa714

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 12:22 PM

Watty,

In light of that, perhaps we should add to your guidelines:
For longest life of the kite - Avoid contact with sharp objects and unwilling people while flyingPosted Image


Ha!
There is no such thing as an unwilling person if they are walking thru an open flying field! Posted Image

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
av-1950.jpg


#18 Love2fly

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 12:53 PM

Ha!
There is no such thing as an unwilling person if they are walking thru an open flying field! Posted Image



LOL

I guess, locally, we knew who this was .... Posted Image

We fly the heck out these kites. Tormenting others is half the fun. Taking hats off... that might not be the best thing for the life of the kite, but it's way too much fun to consider otherwise!

Most likely, some of those tears that you're referring to, are from Rich being Rich out there. No holding back is the way he flies. If it's on the ground (usually from an axil), completely flipped over, lines snagged, he'll still yank on it and try like hell to right it. Even when someone's walking to help him out, he's still yanking on it! Gotta love the energy!

I'd have to agree that putting them away properly is important. Otherwise, you wind up with creases that don't go away and then don't look quite as pretty. Even though the mesh never is in contact with space that the LE frame slides into, when you break it down, never keep the frame real close to each other and then try to fold it. Allowing an inch or so of space will allow for some "wiggle room" for the frame and no stress at the folds.

Wayne,
If you take care of them, as you do, you should be fine for many years to come! Who knows, you might feel the need for something new and special in your quiver, over time!!

See you soon-
Laura
 
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Posted Image

#19 Wayne

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 03:40 PM

If you take care of them, as you do, you should be fine for many years to come! Who knows, you might feel the need for something new and special in your quiver, over time!!


Laura,
I'll admit that flying Rich's midvent at Belmar got me thinking...Posted Image Mesh tears or not, that was a sweet RevPosted Image. Maybe if I am really good to Barb...

Wayne Reed
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http://WReedImages.com
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