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#1 Redrocket

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:55 PM

Hello All,

I have recently become a member of this forum. I live in Devon in England and used to fly a 'Green's kite' Delta wing stunt kite 16 or so years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. My only recent kiting is with my children's cheap single line flyers.

I have been fascinated with Revolution kites for a long time now but could never afford one. Anyway, I recently purchased an EXP from EBay for £55.00 GBP. So I was well chuffed – Came with handles and DVD but no lines. I have now supplied my own lines from a reel I had many years ago. Getting them the same length has been a challenge but I think I'm nearly there.

I have only been out few times with it, the first two were a bit of a disaster cause the lines were all wrong. The last time however, I managed to get it off the ground and it flew right above me, then I managed to land it………just before it flipped onto its leading edge…..this tends to happen too often..

Anyway, I was wondering if there are any members that live in Devon that wouldn't mind me tagging along one day just to see how it should be done………?

One more thing – is it easier to learn on longer or shorter lines?

Thank you

#2 Watty

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 03:56 PM

Hello Redrocket
Sorry, but I'm not in Devon, so I can't help you there, but as for the line length, I can give some input.

Now, I think this depends on your definition of "easiest." Longer lines give the kite more room to fly, and give you more reaction time, as the kite seems to be moving slower (the kite is actually moving at the same pace, but it seems slower because it takes longer to get from one side of the wind window to the other.) In this aspect, it makes flying the kite easier.
However, shorter lines do give you less room, but this is not all bad. The lack of space will force you to control you speed and hover more. Plus, if you learn the toss-and-catch, whenever you make a mistake, where you would normally have to stake the lines and fix the kite, you can simply walk up to the kite , untangle any lines, and throw it back out. In my opinion, shorter lines allow a person to learn faster, because they have to maintain more control, and it is easier to experiment. Other people may view this differently.

One thing I want to mention is line weight. You say that you used some line that you had from many years ago for a Delta kite, correct? Well, the line for a dual line kite is a tad different. Because we are using 4 lines as opposed to 2 lines, the we can save weight. The standard line weight for Revolution kites is 90# line. 50# line is often used in light wind to indoor situations, and 150# line may be used in heavy wind or on any of the blast series revs. If you want to get some great line sets, I fully recommend using Laser Pro Gold lines. The reason for this is that this line does most of it's stretching in the first couple of flights, and then doest stretch much more. So, this allows you to equalize the lines after the first couple flights, then you don't have to worry about it, whereas some other line types may keep stretching, and will stretch unevenly.

Hope this helps,
~Spencer "Watty" Watson

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#3 Kitelife

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 07:57 PM

Line equalizing is on the list for my next batch of video tutorials, fyi. ;)

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#4 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 08:01 PM

I will second Watty's line recommendation. It is best to use a dedicated quad line set. Laser Pro Gold will get the most votes, (and is what I use) but there is also Shanti and Berry Blue. There are many fliers in the UK, you will find someone to fly with. You may even get one of them to loan you a line set! :sign_kitelife:


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#5 Love2fly

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:13 PM

Hello Redrocket-

Welcome to the Rev Family-

What the guys have already stated is true; I just want to add one little explaination. The reason why we fly with LPG (Lasar Pro Gold) or similar is the lack of stretch/creep as mentioned. Why this is so important is that if you use regular SLK line; like dacron, for example, it will stretch as you do your inputs (make the kite turn, stop, etc.) What that means to you is, that it will delay your input and your kite will not respond accurately or as quickly as you'd like. Also, with the constant stretching, you will, most likely, never be able to equalize your lines. It is definitely worth the investment for good, quality lines.

Good luck and have fun!
Laura
 
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#6 Baloo

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 10:50 PM

Hi RR, welcome to the forum.

I live near Malvern, so at least in the same Country as you :)

I agree with all the advice you have had so far.

If you stay tuned on here you might see info on gatherings of Rev folks, happen once in a while.

Also worth going to any festivals that are local to you. Not so much to fly as they tend to be crowded places. However got to meet the folks that fly Revs, dont be afraid to walk up to the guys that have just flown in a display. as long as they are not busy anyone will have a nattter with you.

There must be someone on here closer to you. hopefully you will get a fly buddy.

#7 big bri

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 01:07 AM

Welcome to the dark side.

Thers a few good fellas at your end of the softies,,,,i mean countryPosted Image .

Dave Ellison is down ther.Ian I4C also.Thers quite a few goodns

Here is a link to Kitecalendar.This is an events list of mainly uk festivals.Thers also some good contact info and uk kite club info.

http://www.kitecalendar.co.uk/

Have fun
BRIAN...

Edited by big bri, 11 March 2010 - 01:08 AM.


#8 ssm1nw

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 01:39 AM

Dunc in Devon flys at Woolacombe Bay, try sending him a message Im sure he would love to fly with someone and would be willing to help.

Regards

Keith






#9 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 05:06 AM

As far as I can tell from the west side of the pond there's a darn good bunch of fliers within your reach. I'm sure you'll have some mates to fly with in no time. If you ever find yourself in the eastern part of Tennessee, USA look me up
Scott A Koenig
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#10 Redrocket

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 08:50 AM

Wow, what a response. Thank you all very much – I even got a reply from Mr. Barresi…….Result!

Anyway, I must apologise for not replying sooner but I'm not a very frequent internet user.

I have been out a number of times since my last post and I'm definitely improving but things are still rather random on the control front. I don't think I'm doing myself any favours either. As per 'Wattys' comments, I believe my lines are probably too short for a novice like me (15 metres or in 'American' 49 feet) so I don't have a very wide wind window to fly in. By the time I've got the kite off the ground and under control, I'm usually to the far left or right hand side of the window and out of the blowy zone, so the kite just drops……..bummer.

Also as 'Watty' mentions, my old lines were designed for dual line operation and I believe will probably have a larger diameter than dedicated quad lines, and as such will have more 'drag' in the wind.

Laura spoke about stretchiness and my lines are pretty good at that too. I can easily stretch a single line 1 foot over the 49 feet length without much effort at all. So I guess that if the kite is being buffeted by the wind the lines will stretch to accommodate the winds force therefore not allowing me much control. So in essence all I'm doing is supporting the 4 lines while the wind does all the controlling.............am I right or what?

I think I'm going to have to get some LPG lines sooner rather than later. I'm not a tight git, just don't have any spare cash, like most people I should imagine. Anyway, I gotta start savin'.

Thanks for listening

Redrocket aka Chris


#11 david ellison

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 09:34 AM

Hi Chris, welcome to the weird and wonderful world of four. Where in Devon are you? Let me know and I'm sure we can get together and get you heading in the right direction :)

#12 dagnabbit

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:24 PM

Wow, yes, it sounds like you're using some sort of polyester or nylon line. Lots of stretch. You will be amazed at flying a line that has around 2% stretch on full load (less than 1% stretch at 30% load). You inputs will seem instantaneous now. Went through the same revelation flying dual lines back in the 1980's. You're going to have some fun with that. :-)
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#13 Baloo

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:59 PM

Chris, I have some Climax (almost as good as LPG) line still on spools that I bought a few Years ago, never yet got round to using it. Not sure that I ever will.

In the interest of getting you going I could donate it to you, will cost you a drink if we ever meet at a fest or summat.

Pretty much the only condition I will put on the deal is that if you later get LPG or summat you have to pass the lines onto another needy person. :)

You could then have the fun of making your lines up. There is enough to make at least a set of 120ft, with a bit left over for some shoer 3D lines.

David might even help you with making them up.

You will need to get some bridle line to make into sleeves for the ends, I might even have some of that too.

Drop me a PM with your address if you are interested.

#14 Redrocket

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 10:24 AM

Hello Again,

Thanks again for the replies people – makes me feel like one of the gang……….Hoorah!

David E, I live in Exeter Sir. Yeah, I'd like to meet up sometime – you could try flying using my 'special lines' haha….

Yeah, stretchy – like flying with elastic Dagnabbit, should give David (above) a challenge. Thanks for the mail.

Mr Baloo. I'd love to take you up on your offer please. I hereby state that I will conform to your mentioned condition. Look forward to receiving it. As for bridle line and sleeves……….dunno what that's for, I just tie my line to the knots on the end of the steering strings and up it goes……….before crashing back down again…..see, novice.

Flew the kite yesterday, got loads or air time for a change. I didn't have too much control though. But I'm beginning to understand what each little rotation does now. Can't wait to get those proper lines…..yippi.

Bye for now

Chris

#15 Redrocket

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 12:05 PM

RESPECT to Baloo,

the kindly Gent has sent me an ample amount of new line for my kite - the proper stuff too.........ace bloke.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to get some new longer lines together over the Easter break. Might even get a chance to fly if this damn rain stops for a few hours.

I will of course keep you informed of my progress should you be interested.

Bye for now

Chris

#16 Baloo

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:44 PM

No problem mate, glad to be in a position to help out.

#17 Redrocket

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 12:56 PM

Hello all,

Just thought I would update you on my progress so far –

For me, getting the lines made up was quite a challenge; I'd done it once with the old 'elastic' lines so I figured doing it again would be easy. NOPE! That wasn't the case – My God, isn't this stuff skinny, it's like a 'fat' cotton strand. Anyway, one day at work I unwound 4no lengths of line about 28metres (92") long, and then wound them all together ready for the next day when I planned to get them all the same length.


So, I'm at work and I have one end of each new line hooked onto a thin metal tube running between two g-clamps. Then I run the lines out and do the same at the other end. I then try to separate them so that I would have 4no lines running parallel to each other – I couldn't even get one line out let alone four of 'em…….bugger! I know, I'll wrap each line in turn loosely around my hand and feed it in and out of the other lines all the way down………brilliant! Nah, that didn't work. I got about 1/3 of the way down and got into a terrible state, my 'unfurled' line is now looking like a tiny, messy birds nest and won't undo anymore. So I work out which line it is and unclip it from the other end and pull it through, so now I am left with 3no lines to separate. This time I used one of the reels that Baloo sent me with the new kite line on…….it worked a treat……..sorted.

I didn't have any sleeving material, so instead I made up a number of equal length hoops out of the old line and tied the new line to these. This will allow me to do all my tying to and from the kite/handles using a thicker and more manageable line……..tah dah! All I did was adjust the length of these hoops until I got all my lines pretty much the same length. My bottom lines are marked with black permanent ink and one of my top lines has a small piece of red electrical tape attached as a marker.

I've only had about 20 minutes of flight with these new lines so far, and they do obviously make a world of difference, I'm well chuffed.

I'll keep in touch.

Chris

#18 Murph

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 01:58 PM

Hi Chris,

Listen I've been there before. As regards to unravelling line inside the house and getting into trouble...with a birds nest of line in my lap (who hasn't) Posted Image

But as for the old chestnut 'sleeve or not to sleeve' well there is another thread here that you might be interested in.

Also you might want to take a look at both Johns or Simons excellent youtube videos, on the subject of line equaling as well.

Myself, I got a spool of 1000 yard spool of LPG (thanks Kent) my old line was looking a little worse for wear, lets just say. So I thought why not spend the money and save at the same time....and just get the best. Now don't get me wrong, I've made line sets up before and you read a lot of different views on the topic (I suppose everyone swears by their own methods) LPG is arguable the best line with the least amount of stretch but still I've found over the last while that when making a lines up from a spool you really need to give the line a good stretch before you come to sleeving it. I learnt the hard way the other day...having in my head that LPG had very little stretch and thought sure I won't need to pre-stretch it and just went ahead and sleeved, measured it out and everything looked great, even after I had started to fly my Rev but after a little while I heard the 'click' (from the line) and the kite started to act weird, pulling on one side, not flying directly vertically when taking off. Landed it, removed the lines from the kite and from my handles, staked them out and measured again, one of the lines (which just before had been equal) had gone way out of wack..maybe an inch. I decided to give the lines and good stretching, got some more 'clicks' from the lines, I guest thats the strands tightening up or something. Then measured and fixed the deviations that resulted from the stretch and measure again. Connect kite, handles back again and everything was back to normal. Very happy with LPG line they are just amazingly slick, I couldn't recommend them more.

Check the links above...and search for 'making linesets' on the forum too, you might save yourself lots of time tying and untying knots over and over again (not necessarily a bad thing). If anything the advice that new lines need to bed in, well its a if anything I've found its quite true.

I'm really no expert, but I'm sure someone will give you more definitive advice than me but hope I've help a little and not confused you more so.

Chris

#19 Baloo

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:34 PM

Glad the lineset making has entertained you Chris.

I made a set up this morning, took me about half an Hour or so, fully sleeved and everything :kid_devlish:

But then I have done it B4, going to try a set without sleeves next time.

Oh then I though what the heck, best check my some of my other lines, only had to adjust one line out of 4 sets, not too bad.

Then a Zen turned up so I had other things to do :)

Making line sets is not easy the first couple of times. Gets easier though.

Glad they seemed to make a difference. The important thing is that both the top lines, and both the bottom lines need to be the same length, depending on how fussy you are to within 1/4". Not quite so important for the top and bottom lines to be the same, need to be reasonably close.

Hope your knots are good. You need at least an overhand knot, than another one fairly close to it to be sure of no slipping.

#20 Baloo

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:35 PM

Oh, and just out of interest, why did you choose that length?




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