15 replies to this topic

[big bri]

Yesterday we flew as usual.Apart from we had ONE OF THOSE DAYS......

We all set up in the low winds[3mph as an average]but somtimes it was less than zero as the damp and wet soaked the sails.The thickish fog didnt help[soup as an average,none pupkin].Quite cold also[above freezing].The air was damp and it was a very,very grey day

PERFECT FLYING CONDITIONS
NOT

Almost streight away we had problems with our line sets.Twisting and binding up.We all had 1.5s on the ends,but two of us had fifty pound lines and two had ninetys.When performing compound benefits especially.The lines on number four kite.Which wher 50lb lines in the quad[left to right facing kites]became almost unflyable.The lines bound so much and twists could actually be herd running into the line,,,,,,,,,sounded like wire being stretched,,sort of.

Anyone had this before.We never have.The line was all ;LPG btw

I suspect due to the low wind and wet weather.The tensions on lines and unequal line thickness/weight,and drag would probaly cause the finer 50lb line to get trapped easy in wraps.Then cause twists........which then basically binds the lines into one.Leaving little or no control in certain moves

WADA YA THINK

BRIAN...

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

WADA YA THINK

BRIAN...

Hi Brian,

In damp conditions lines do bind. I suspect 50s will be more likely to do so but I have never(?) used them.

The lines can bind EDIT 'especially in light winds' to the point that only slow and patient unravelling will work.

<aside> There was evidence of goose shit on Blackheath today </aside>

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 24 January 2010 - 07:51 AM.

[Bazzer]

Know it well Bri,
As soon as the moisture level comes up troubles start in team flying.
Especially if you are beach fliers. The salt leaches out of the lines.
The middle to the back end of the flying line will have it happen more than the front as they get bound in more.
Also running team stuff with 50lb in the mix will cause binding also breakage. If all the lines are the same it happens less as they slide evenly. We never run 50lb in team its to fine and certainly not hit a compound Benefit.
Maneuvers such as compound Benefits are probably the hardest on lines and they will bind.
However the age of the lines is the usual culprit. We have it happen even on dry days.
If they are fuzzy ,rough or full of grit or salt you are heading for problems.
A quick fix is to reverse the lines so that the abraided areas are in a different place.
Another is to wash your lines in clean water at the end of the day,shake off and dry on the winder.
If you do bind up . Step forward and give your lines "the old one two" it helps release the bind. Shout out Locked!(so your team leader is knows)As soon as you get control back continue.
If you are in the middle of a fly through and you lock before the 180, step forward a step, wait for a couple of 180 to happen this can release the lock.
Don't panic or move backwards it increases the pressure on the lines.
If it keeps happening...well its new lines time. Or just fly the dull stuff.
We will use at least three line sets a year but that is only possible due to sponsorship.( thankyou T and Laser Pro)
Ok we are lucky but for the majority of fliers this is not feasible.

So lets start discussing how to clean and look after your lines.
Any ideas guys and gals, John can we link this to a new or existing topic?

For all of you coming to WSIKF! expect your lines to be worthless by the end of it unless you take care of your lines.
Bazzer

Edited by Bazzer, 24 January 2010 - 10:16 AM.

[Kitelife]

Once or twice a year we fly in Ocean Shores, WA...

Every time, we *count* on the fact any set of lines we bring out there will go to by the end of the weekend.

Coarse sand that works its way into the weave, and always very moist.

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>
We will use at least three line sets a year but that is only possible due to sponsorship.( thankyou T and Laser Pro)
Ok we are lucky but for the majority of fliers this is not feasible.
<snip>
Bazzer

I think that in an an ideal world lines should be replaced regularly but the last team set I had prior to the current LPG ones lasted for <deleted> years.

If it ain't broke why fix it?

Felix

[Wobbly]

If I have been flying on sand or in salt water I always wash my gear with clean water, I have been known to get in the shower with a kite somtime's ( kinky ) for some time now I have been reguarly spraying my lines with Silicone spray to keep them "slippery" and it also appears to work as a water repellent, work's for me, and causes now harm to spectra line than I have found.

[big bri]

Thanks guys for all your wisdom and tips fellas.

I did sorta have it figured,but im so glad you guys also have to overcome the challenges we faced yesterday.I thought we had the Johna sign on us at one point.
.Between fixing car Punctures,Soaking Fog,no wind,Silver bullet rod discussions that took hours with a,,, NOW BANNED OFF THE BEECH MICROMETER[why me]and then our lines playing up.It realy was three steps forward and five back Yesterday,,,, .


In my quest for Improvment and standarisation within the team.I shall endevor to check EVERYONES LINES[mine are always mint]and line quality,the unwashed,and for foreign bodies like Goose s...,,,,lol.Before we regret it.

Thanks All,

BRIAN...

[Dean750]

I know this is a dumb question. But has anyone tried SexWax? With 2 blocks and putting the brake lines in the middle of the row of 4 side by side and pinned between the blocks you should be able to treat all 4 lines at once with only one trip between the loops. Probably not a one and done treatment, but theoretically it should smooth out the frays in the line as well as make them slick and water proof. What do ya think?
Lay your lines out on the handles from your stake, walk back to the stake, treat the lines, attach to kite and fly away. Sound plausable?

Dean

[big bri]

Does sound very easy and doable

Once youve cleaned the lines with fresh water first i would think.I also beleive in our case it was a combination of things at work.Some of Which wher unavoidable,but frustratingly.Some wher avoidable.

I think it was John Mitchell that said Bees Wax is ok on lines.Bees have sex.Well in most countrys they used todo

[RevWizard]

Does sound very easy and doable

Once youve cleaned the lines with fresh water first i would think.I also beleive in our case it was a combination of things at work.Some of Which wher unavoidable,but frustratingly.Some wher avoidable.

I think it was John Mitchell that said Bees Wax is ok on lines.Bees have sex.Well in most countrys they used todo

Bees wax is only good for holding knots together, such as on the bridle. If you want your lines to really stick together bees wax is the way to go. If you want slippery lines silicon is more the way to go. One negative on silicon is that it seems to attract sand.

You will also note that LaserPro and Shanti are a bit different from each other. Shanti is a softer more flexible line. LaserPro is harder and stiffer. When they are newer lines they work fairly well with each other. However as they age it seems to get worse. Laser Pro and Laser Pro match very well. Shanti and Shanti match very well.

[big bri]

Sorry JM,i stand corrected.Tried Silicon and the sand seems to Luv it also.

BRIAN...

[Vince]

Hi Bri,

How noticable was the sand when you used silicon. My next question is how long before the effects of the silicon wore off.

Edited by Vince, 25 January 2010 - 11:13 PM.

[Wobbly]

Personally not had any problem with sand on my lines that have been treated with silicone spray, after treating them I let them air dry, I try to treat them on a regular basis after every 3 or 4 day's of full flying time or when I think they need it, if sand is an issue could try parking and staking the kite in the diamond landing position if the wind is not too strong. Did this the other week although one of my fellow flyer's reckoned I was a cocky bar steward.

[quaa714]

I have a number of line sets in various conditions but one in particular I refer to as my "beater" lines. They have seen every condition imaginable and look every bit as beat up and they just will not break.
I've never treated or done anything to my line sets with anything other than an occasional dunk in fresh water after a particularly sandy or salt water fly and have not had a problem due to wear, etc.

That said, I have various line sets that are in great condition, one of which got cut not too long ago. Reason......another pilot cut em.

Long story short, I'm not anal enough to worry about treating them with anything other than my incredibly hard punishment of everything. If/when they break, I replace em.
YMMV............

[monkey]

I still have, and regularly use, the original 120 foot set I took to Berck, France in 2006 when John and I hadn't even conceived of the idea of iQuad. Still fly fine for reasons unknown to me as I don't do anything special with them, just wind carefully.

[big bri]

Have to say.My opening question was,Whats Going On,,,,,, why are our lines binding.I think its a good topic for on here.Even thought i had most of it figured out WHY.Some great replys and info.Which is what its all about and appreciated.

So,the answer to my question is,a combination of things.

The weather,wet,damp,thickish Fog and low winds.Around 3 or 4mph and lower,Not ideal and out of my control
Beech flying,sand,salt,perhaps other foreign bodies.Usual place we fly,no new enterties
Mix of 50lb and 90lb lines.Perhaps all the same works better.All on same poundage.This we have control over
The move when the binding happened,compound benefits.Avoid this particular type of move in the conditions.This we have control over
Some of the line sets needed a clean.Never seen a wash and wher worn.Mine wher Mint,perhaps some dont see the importance of looking after ther kit,Outa my control,its ther gear
Team flying,Worth remembering thers sixteen lines at work.Not just four.

Personally,i wash my lines regular in fresh water.Rinse under the tap,,,,,,job done,end of.Never had a problem with LPG

Silicon,wax,sewers aid,hair conditioner,shampoo,Armorol,,,,,,,,,ive never needed them,just keep my lines clean.Used silicon once a while ago,,,,Hated it,but if someone in the team is useing the stuff.Then perhaps it rubs off.The lines we used on Saturday.Wher our own personal linesets.Not from the team bag.The team lines all get treated the same way and are saved for events
Kept in a pleasant,controled enviroment.....

BRIAN...