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#1 kwmf

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 03:40 AM

Hi there

I'm new to the world of Revs, but have a background in power kites, and have a question about line sets and strength.

I currently fly a 1.5 SLE but will be geting a vented Barresi soon due to the stronger and gusty nature of our wind here. I fly mostly in winds over 12mph and can get conditions were winds are gusting over 18mph, but I'd also like to fly in lower wind and get down to flying short lines as well so I can do some urban low/no wind flying.

I'd like to get a set of 120, 90, 60 and 30' lines, but I'd like to hear what strenght lines you guys suggest for those lengths. Coming from a power kite background I never looked at anything less than 440/220lbs lines for power and brake lines respectively, so seening numbers like 50#, 90# and 150# is new to me Posted Image

Keep in mind that until I can afford more lines and kites, I will be using these lines on the full sail SLE as well as the vented.

So what do you suggest for each of the above mentioned lengths?

Thanks

#2 Martin Linford

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:09 AM

Hi there too !!

Welcome to Rev World

I have flown Rev's for a good few years now and have 50, 90 and 150# line sets.

However, the most commonly used are the 90's even on a vented when the winds up !!

If you are looking for one good all round set then 120ft 90# should serve you well

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Martin

#3 Jeepster

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:40 AM

kwmf,

One of the great advantages of Revs is that you can fly shoulder-to-shoulder with others. That adds an entirely new dimension to kite flying. But, it's best if all parties are flying on the same length lines. 120 is a standard line length for team flying. Check around with other Rev fliers in your area and see what they use for the intermediate line lengths ... 75' to 90' being the most common. The IKE club members have settled on 80' lines as their intermediate length ... Kite Party requires 75' lines ... I think the Brits use 90' lines. Very little team flying is done on the shorter (50' to 60') lines, but some dual flying happens, so ask the locals about that length also. The 20' to 30' lengths are almost exclusively used for individual flying in the lighter winds, so no problems with what ever you choose.

With the winds you're talking about, 90# line will do you well for all lengths. Some others might recommend 50# for the 30' foot line sets. Don't even think about following the power kite tradition of using lighter lines for the bottom pair ... the disadvantages far out weight any advantages!!

If you want to stretch your dollars on lines, you might investigate making your own line sets. There are several good threads here on how to do that. If you can tie your shoe laces correctly, you can probably make line sets. Plus, you'll eventually have to learn to equalize the lengths and that's the hardest part about making line sets. Buy good materials ... Laser Pro would be my suggestion.

Cheers and welcome to the dark side,
Tom

#4 Jim Foster

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 09:45 AM

Lynn and I carry 75' for Kite Party and other areas, like Seaport Village in San Diego, where shorter lines must be used due to space. 100', which we use most all of the time when flying together and with others up to four or five. Most of the folks we fly with have a set of 100' lines. 120' for flying in large areas and with larger groups. All of our lines are 90#.
Fly together! Share the joy, Share the fun

#5 Simon

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:20 AM

I'd like to get a set of 120, 90, 60 and 30' lines, but I'd like to hear what strenght lines you guys suggest for those lengths. Coming from a power kite background I never looked at anything less than 440/220lbs lines for power and brake lines respectively, so seening numbers like 50#, 90# and 150# is new to me Posted Image

Keep in mind that until I can afford more lines and kites, I will be using these lines on the full sail SLE as well as the vented.

So what do you suggest for each of the above mentioned lengths?

Thanks


120' = Team lines - these are the most common in Europe where we often get together and fly in Teams of over 8 flyers, gives you more space.
90' = Not used this side that much, unless you fly on your own a lot. Gives you a better space to fly in. Good for competition - bigger shapes.
75' = these were cut from the Shanti 150' line spool - so popular a few years back
60' = not come across these for a while (I only team fly now)
30' Yep, Uban, Low wind, 3D flying > you can also work down in 5' lengths ie 25', 20 etc. depending on space.

As for weight, unlike dual line or power kites you don't need to worry so much about the weight. Team flying we have pretty much settled on 80 or 90#

You can fly indoors on 80 or 90#, so only get 50# if you really need it or get some cheap. The weave is more of a problem than the weight. A loose weave will grab itself. A nice tight weave on an 80 or 90 is fine.

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#6 kwmf

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 11:17 PM

Hi guys

Thanks for the replies. The reason for my question (and probably many more to come) is that there aren't any experienced Rev flyers around here. The is one other guy, also from a power background, who's been flying for about a year already, but he's pretty much been working what he's got. I hope to tap the resources of the vastly more experienced so that I can set a good foundation and understanding of the various elements as I build my skills.

With no people around who can team fly (until I get myself a vented Barresi and my girlfriend flies the SLE with me as a pair) other than the 1 other Rev flyer, I can pretty much freely set my own lengths. With 120' being required learning and 30' being something I want to master for street flying, it just makes sense to use nice equal 30' increments inbetween.

I have no intention to mismatch the top and bottom lines like in power kites, just saying that even the lesser used brake lines on my power kites are at least 220# ... so flying a line that is 90# just feels like I'm asking for a line break. I know the Revs don't pull like a power and it's a mental thing ... but it also means I currently have no reference as to what lines fit in where.


So far it seems the general recommendation is 90# all the way ...
I'd still like more opinions on the original question, but under what conditions would you recommend 50# and 150# line?

Thanks for the help
Steven

#7 Murph

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 12:30 AM

there aren't any experienced Rev flyers around here

Hi Steven,
Where are you located (can't tell from your profile)...my bet is there's bound to be a Rev flyer under or on some rock nearby you Posted Image

Chris

#8 big bri

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 01:33 AM

Hi and Welcome
Everything seems tobe covered by the above gentlemen.
One small thing we do with our lines is.Have one line on a winder[tiny winder]made to the same length as the set we team fly on.Then if we snap a line.Its a quick job to just change that line.Rather than all four.We only use 50lb and 90lb sets and ther coulor coded by the sleeving,so easy to tell apart.

LPG is the line we use.Laser Pro Gold[LPG] Posted Image

BRIAN...

#9 quaa714

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 04:06 AM

Hi guys

Thanks for the replies. The reason for my question (and probably many more to come) is that there aren't any experienced Rev flyers around here.

So far it seems the general recommendation is 90# all the way ...
I'd still like more opinions on the original question, but under what conditions would you recommend 50# and 150# line?
Thanks for the help
Steven


Where on "earth" are you located?

As most have already said, 90# will get you thru most anything.
When the breeze drops below 4 or 5 a 50# set will create less friction in the air and therefore makes it a good weight for light wind. That and a shorter lineset will help tremendously.
Conversely, 150# lines will create more drag/friction in a higher wind and will help give you a better feel for the kite in winds over 15. There are no hard and fast rules though, this is a very subjective sport in that, what works for one is merely a guideline for others to accept or further investigate on their own.
90# is fine at both of these examples but most, probably all here, would tell you it is infinitely more easy to come to these conclusions on your own.


Please tell us where you are located.Many people here travel for work or pleasure and turn up in the most unusual of places, almostr always carrying at least one or two or three Revs with them.

Edited by quaa714, 13 January 2010 - 04:08 AM.

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#10 kwmf

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 07:38 AM

Durban, South Africa and the winds I fly in are 95% of the time above 12mph with gusts above that - hence the soon to be acquired vented B series Posted Image

I'm going to have to import the LPG line set from someone like Theresa, so I can't really afford (time and money) to just experiment a whole lot. I need to try get as close as possible to the best all purpose most wind conditions setup I can get, and then add the lesser used ones over time.

If anyone is heading out this way, perhaps for the soccer world cup, be sure to let me know.

#11 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:00 AM

I have no intention to mismatch the top and bottom lines like in power kites, just saying that even the lesser used brake lines on my power kites are at least 220# ... so flying a line that is 90# just feels like I'm asking for a line break. I know the Revs don't pull like a power and it's a mental thing ... but it also means I currently have no reference as to what lines fit in where.



Steven,

The others have already given you some spot on information.

Just for your peace of mind: There is a major difference between Revs and power kites that allow for the lighter line weights. Typically all four lines are loaded, so your 90# set can carry somewhere near 360#s. This equal or near equal loading of the lines is crucial to controlling the kite, and in lighter winds allows the sail pressure needed to fly.
Scott A Koenig
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#12 Jeepster

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:16 AM

... Typically all four lines are loaded, so your 90# set can carry somewhere near 360#s.


Opps, don't forget that the knots are the weak link ... the line strength, with proper sleeving, is lowered to approximately 65%. However, Scott's still correct that 90# lines will carry a very large load.

This is a short video that was taken at the Grand Haven kite festival a few years ago. The winds were 25 mph with gusts to 35 mph. Now, Papa Smurf is clearly not up to the base weight of some of the other participants, but you can still get an idea of how strong the lines are.

Last year the winds again were very strong and I watched Cadguy break a 4-wrap rod on a vented B-series ... twice!!! But, he had no problems with his lines.

Cheers,
Tom

#13 quaa714

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:30 AM

Last year the winds again were very strong and I watched Cadguy break a 4-wrap rod on a vented B-series ... twice!!! But, he had no problems with his lines.

Cheers,
Tom


Last 9-11, Paul Dugard & I flew at Liberty in a 25 - 30 mph rain storm both of us on 90# 120' lines, both very worn and easily considered "beater" lines and the only thing that got busted up was the sail of my "Barnacle Bill" kite and that was a long time in coming.....:)

90s as a primary lineset will absolutely take you far on both ends of the spectrum.

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
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#14 kwmf

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:51 AM

This is a short video that was taken at the Grand Haven kite festival a few years ago.

Last year the winds again were very strong and I watched Cadguy break a 4-wrap rod on a vented B-series ... twice!!! But, he had no problems with his lines.


LOL, I flew static power kite last year in 25mph winds with a 2m Pansh Ace and boy was that a hoot. Had my first buggy experience (and epic wipeout) not an hour later.

Just out of morbid curiosity, what exactly does it take to break a 4 wrap in a vented B?


90s as a primary lineset will absolutely take you far on both ends of the spectrum.


So when would you guys consider 150# lines?

As a rule of thumb, what would you suggest for line length as the winds go up - longer lines to give you more time, or shorter lines to reduce the size of the window?

#15 MrDenny

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:53 AM

Ok, I have them all. 120s down to 10 foot in the 90#. I only tell you that so you know I have a choice. When ever the wind allows I get out the 50# 50 footers. Yes they can be a bit more trouble and tangle easier but just I love to fly them.

Denny #12

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#16 awindofchange

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 11:19 AM

For your Vented kite, 90# will usually work fine and you can use it on your standard kite as well. If you are only going to be flying in the stronger winds and already have a set of lines for your standard kite, go for the 150# line on your Vented. The 150# is more than strong enough and you will never have a problem. The extra line weight from 90# to 150# is nearly nothing - especially if you are in the stronger winds 90% of the time. This is what I would use if I were in your situation. The minimal increase in cost is not worth messing with the 90#.

As far as length, anything from 75' to 120' (or longer) will work. If you fly solo and like the excitement of the kite, get the 75' lineset as this will speed the kite up a little bit and make it much more responsive. If you want to slow the kite down a little and give yourself more sky to play in, get the 100' or 120'. Also, if you have a shorter/smaller beach or park area, the shorter lines will be better. If you have unlimited room then any lineset will work.

Hope this helps.

#17 kwmf

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 02:48 AM

So one lonely vote for the 150# lines?
Looks like the majority say go 90# lines and 50 for low wind.

How about I flip the question around .... Who has experienced line breaks before and what were the conditions that broke them?


Another question on lenght if I may - what are the shortest lines you've flown under wind power outdoors. I've seen the likes of JB and Watty running super short lines outdoors in low/no wind, but I'm wondering what is the shortest you can reasonably fly under wind power?

#18 Simon

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:03 AM

So one lonely vote for the 150# lines?
Looks like the majority say go 90# lines and 50 for low wind.

How about I flip the question around .... Who has experienced line breaks before and what were the conditions that broke them?


Another question on lenght if I may - what are the shortest lines you've flown under wind power outdoors. I've seen the likes of JB and Watty running super short lines outdoors in low/no wind, but I'm wondering what is the shortest you can reasonably fly under wind power?



Hi, been flying Rev's since (forever) 1990. Never had a line break, not sure about top wind (over 30 mph easily).

Short lines, outside about 10 foot, you can do some really nice 3D flying when the wind is light you can pull the kite thru it and do 360's & pull overs any other fun stuff.

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#19 SynTaks

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 06:44 PM

Personally I haven't broken lines, but the other half has broke 2 in a total of 2 years of almost daily flying for him. Both were 50#, and it wasn't from flying, but from ice snags or dogs in the first couple of months.

The only time I break out 150# is 20+mph gusts on a Blast. Line length is all about perception too. We started out on 90#/90', but now those seem like the kite is way too far away. I would say the first set to use would be close to the length you use on traction so that the range of the kite is familiar.

I've made some 15' and 25' out of 90#, but only flown that on bridleless [like an Indoor]. The main thing I would say against 50# to start with is that it tangles easier and is harder to see to untwist, even using LPG.

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