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Catching the Wind


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#1 JoneZ

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:45 AM

K guys and gals,, Im a roast,,, Baste me..

I know theres that little pocket of wind from 0 to 4 feet where the wind is considerably lessened, and getting above that, the kite shoots into the air.
The question I have, is for techniques on catching the wind to rise above that. Once Im up in the air, I also have a hard time hovering in place (kite is right side up). the kite wants to hover for a bit, then sink, and I have to pump (which is also difficult to recatch the wind to stabilize) to get that momentum stable again, which messes up my attempts to own thy hover, every time...

That brought me to my leader lines. When I flew yesterday, I had my top lines out to about 9"(edit) or so, and my bottom leaders on the notch closest to the handle. This made it so dang hard to get forward momentum (was literally touching the bottom handles to the top lines and was still having issues), so I adjusted the bottom lines out one by one, til I reached the end knot (about 2.5" from the handle). that made it slightly easier to maintain thy hover and achieve forward momentum, but I was getting that sail rippling sound when I zipped forward at full speed (which is an indication of too little brake, I think?). Inverted flight became a b!tch with the config this way (quite bobbly).

I would like to start a massive newbie discussion on peoples beginner experiences with these issues, in hopes that I can get a deeper and more intimate knowledge of these basic principles.

I pass the baster.. ;)

Edited by JoneZ, 07 January 2010 - 08:41 AM.

Formerly "Spz0"

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#2 JoneZ

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 08:55 AM

Alright, I went out this morning to fly. I made a couple adjustments to my handles. I let out the top leaders another 2-3" or so and made 2 more knots all 1/2" apart (for a total of 3 knots) and notched the top lines at the last knot (around 11.5"). My bottom leaders have 4 knots in 3/4" increments, for a total of 2 1/2". I notched the bottom lines on the knot closest to the handle (1/4" away from the handle). Picked her up to fly, and it was too much brake. I was running into the same issue of really crankin it hard to launch, but it just wouldnt catch the wind.
So,, I adjusted my top leader up 1/2" to 11" in total length. Tried again, and this was no good either. So I adjusted the bottom lines out 2 more notches (1 3/4" away from the handles) and relaunched. This seemed to be the ticket. That little rainbow Rev took off so damn fast it actually caught me by surprise. lol
I then jammed it as fast as I could, and got no sail rippling sound, so that was good. I flipped her over and tried an inverted hover (which is really bobbly still for me, assuming its my newbness), and was able to maintain a sloppy hover with no over-control.
So I think this is gonna be my optimal setting for now -- at least, til Jb gets ahold of me again. lol ;)

Im flying blind on the theory of all this -- all I know is that I think I found my sweet spot -- but its really bugging me not knowing how all these minute adjustments makes the difference in being able to launch, hover, etc...

Im still having issues catching that wind on launch (lessened by the leader line adjustments), and when I hover right-side-up (if theres any small change in wind, the hover stalls out and starts to sink).
In regards to the hover, when it does sink, its almost impossible for me to smoothly recover it. I end up having to "scoop the air" by turning the kite vertical, then jamming it to fill the sail again. Wash, rinse Repeat.

Edited by JoneZ, 07 January 2010 - 08:56 AM.

Formerly "Spz0"

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~Jon

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#3 awindofchange

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:45 AM

To sum it up in some one liners:

Try more adjustments till you find what works best for you and your style.

Practice more.

============

Ok, that's really all you need is those two things. Everyone had a different flying style which means that there is NO one single setting that is the perfect setting for everyone. If there was, then there would be no need for any adjustments at all. Rev would just put the kites out with one setting and everyone would be a pro. :) I may be mistaken here but I would bet that even the members of I-Quad will all have somewhat different settings on their handles. Everyone is different in the way they hold their handles therefore you just need to try different settings until you find one that works for you. It seems from your second post that you are getting closer to finding that perfect setting.

As your skills grow you will probably discover that the setting that you have now may not be the setting you will be using later. Also, as the wind changes from day to day (or hour to hour) you may find that your settings and preferences will change as well. Again, try different settings until you find what works best for you. The more you fly the more you will know what adjustments you will need to make - just through the way the kite feels in your hands and the way it is flying.

Now....

That being said. Nothing you do with your settings and/or adjustments will give you more skills as a pilot. You can only gain that through flying and practice. The settings will make it easier to perform some tricks or have a little better control, but you must first have the knowledge of how to control the kite. That only comes with practice. One of the biggest problems with both the Rev's and Dual's is that the new pilot assumes that if they stick a kite in a certain position, the kite will do a trick for them and all they have to do is stand there and watch. With the incredible amount of control the Revolutions provide, this problem is greatly exaggerated. When the kite is flying forward, it creates a vortex of wind that flows over the front and back of the sail and provides what is called "Apparent Wind" - or in other words, wind generated by the forward motion of the kite instead of being created naturally by nature. This apparent wind is added to the natural occurring wind and gives the kite improved lift and control while flying. That is why you can keep the Rev in the air all day long while it is flying back and forth but when you stop and hover, the kite loses some of its ability to stay airborne. In very strong winds then this is not a problem but in winds that will barely keep the kite in the air, flying is no problem at all but stalling / hovering will cause the kite to begin to fall out of the air. The point I am getting at with this very un-technical description is that if you are flying in lighter winds conditions your kite will either fall out of the air or you will have to "MOVE YOUR FEET" to make up for the lack of apparent wind while the kite is stalled. :) The kite isn't going to do what you want it to all by itself, you have to make the kite do what you want it to. If you want to put the kite into a perfect stable hover in light winds, you will probably have to walk backwards enough to provide enough wind to get the kite to hold it's hover. If the winds are very strong, WALK FORWARD to take the wind out of the kite so your kite isn't so twitchy and uncontrollable. When you fly towards the edge of the window (where the wind is less) you need to walk backwards to make up for the loss of wind. As you fly towards the center of the window, walk forward to reduce the increased pressure. You can actually hold the kite in a perfect inverted hover and by walking backwards or forward, get the kite to rise or lower without having to make any adjustments to your hands/handles at all! That's the secret!!!!! Get the Rev in the perfect position and use body english to control the wind (not your hands). Try it and you will be amazed at just how easy it is to hold a perfect inverted hover. Also, make your body movements smooth and very fluid, not jerky.

This is a very good thing to incorporate in with your flying and learning but as I stated in the first part of this post, body movement is not going to replace air time and practice....but it will make learning a little bit easier and quicker. :)

Ok, enough with the secrets for now. :) Hope that helps.

#4 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:03 PM

<snip>
Get the Rev in the perfect position and use body english to control the wind (not your hands). Try it and you will be amazed at just how easy it is to hold a perfect inverted hover. Also, make your body movements smooth and very fluid, not jerky.
<snip>


This is an excellent description of what I would refer to 'long arm technique'. The flier should positively throw themselves 'smoothly' into the control of the kite as in '(not your hands)'. The analogy I have referred to is a 'musician playing an instrument'.

Thank you for articulating your thoughts and observations.

Felix

#5 JoneZ

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:19 PM

Great info thusfar. :)
Im finding it a challenge to get out of the 'dual line mentality'. With duals you must be one with your kite. Zen like. This was pretty easily achieved with me.
Quad line is much the same (as is all kite flying), only there is a more direct and intimate connection with your kite, so it makes sense that there would need to be this more direct body movement -- flow -- with the kite.
Something definitely to get use to, as I find myself using my hands more than my body -- which is ok for right now, while Im just learning to achieve the position to hover at 12-3-6-9 O'clock. I am starting to rotate my body on the vertical hovers (slightly), but for the most part am still using my hands and arms.
The body motions will come more naturally for me once I've mastered basic flight and control.
I can see it ALL in my head way too clearly for what my actual skill level is atm. lol. It gets a little frustrating - like learning a new language. lol

I need more quad pilots in my immediate area...

Edited by JoneZ, 07 January 2010 - 12:20 PM.

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~Jon

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#6 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:27 PM

<snip>
With duals you must be one with your kite. Zen like. This was pretty easily achieved with me.
Quad line is much the same (as is all kite flying), only there is a more direct and intimate connection with your kite, so it makes sense that there would need to be this more direct body movement -- flow -- with the kite.
<snip>


I would say that you 'have it in a nut shell'. You have to 'relate positively' be it a one line, two line or a four line kite to achieve that 'flow with the kite'.

The detail in all cases is being sensitive to the nuances of what you are doing and how the interaction works in practice.

I would guess that you just need to spend some time with the kite in varying conditions for the links to be generated. They cannot come all at once. Time and effort are required but it is extremely worthwhile expending that effort. <grins>

Felix

#7 JoneZ

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:36 PM

Time and effort are required but it is extremely worthwhile expending that effort. <grins>
Felix


Absolutely Wholeheartedly agree there brother. :)


And Thanks to Kent for the technical description of how a Rev interacts with the wind. :D That is so invaluable -- being to understand that technical aspect. :)
Formerly "Spz0"

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~Jon

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#8 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

Absolutely Wholeheartedly agree there brother. :)

And Thanks to Kent for the technical description of how a Rev interacts with the wind. :D That is so invaluable -- being to understand that technical aspect. :)


Two other observations I would make...

Watch a middle eastern fighter kite pilot on very long lines - I just do not know how they get to be so sensitive to the minimal feedback down the line.

The second was to congratulate you on a very apt title to your post <grins>

Thanks

Felix




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