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Progression and difficulty levels?


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#21 Dean750

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 07:57 PM

Yep, I got ahead of myself in my thought. Posted Image That never happens Posted Image Hey, at least my colors worked. Posted Image

#22 Kitelife

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 08:02 PM

Nah, never happens to you. :D

Thanks, as always. :)

John Barresi

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#23 Love2fly

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 09:53 PM

Hi John-

I might have mentioned this way back when, but it's pretty important (IMHO), so here goes.

Being totally new to the entire Rev thing, I had no idea of what to do first, second, etc. Obviously, there's a lot of info to share. As a brand new flyer, too much info can "overload the circuitboard". When I finally was able to launch, I had all these images of what you had demonstrated, but no idea what I should be doing next. It was a bit overwhelming and frustrating. I kind of liken it to learning to read. You learn the alphabet, then words, then small sentences, a short story, then you can read a novel. You wouldn't be given a novel the day after you mastered the alphabet. So, I highly recommend giving the info in stages; where it can be more easily absorbed and then applied. Certainly, after getting all of those basics down, even if not perfected, the pilot will have a better understanding of what to do next without being overwhelmed.

I love the idea of games like H-O-R-S-E or whatever to challange specific skills. Truly flying straight lines, doing 180 turns (with a center pivot) without losing altitude, balling up and bursting from every position and other drills of that nature are great for honing one's skills. I would love to see what kind of drills iQuad does to help sharpen their skills.
Laura
 
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Posted Image

#24 Dean750

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:25 PM

Okay, I've thought about it. The reasoning behind clockwork and owning the hover is as Felix yaked about, sloowwwww.
Yes it's a graduation to the intermediate class. Again, just being me. Just ahead of myself. Once you start to own that "HOVER" Clockwork is the next step. Felix and your self want to promote team flying. Grid or otherwise.

CLOCKWORK, is the basis to all that can be done with a Rev. If total contol is what the game is, then Clockwork is the goal. 1/4, 1/8, 15/60 and so on, and on becomes intermediate But if team flying is the goal... And I can tell you after 16 years that TEAM KICKS ASS!!!!!!!!! Then if team is the goal since I too believe team is the shizz nizzz, then the easiest way from first time to the handles to the future, the hover and clockwork are the key to what is to come in the future. Want to be a part of something huge in our world, you better train your dream to do what you want. Posted Image

Love ya. Posted Image

Dean

#25 Kitelife

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:17 PM

Being totally new to the entire Rev thing, I had no idea of what to do first, second, etc. Obviously, there's a lot of info to share. As a brand new flyer, too much info can "overload the circuitboard". When I finally was able to launch, I had all these images of what you had demonstrated, but no idea what I should be doing next. It was a bit overwhelming and frustrating. I kind of liken it to learning to read. You learn the alphabet, then words, then small sentences, a short story, then you can read a novel. You wouldn't be given a novel the day after you mastered the alphabet. So, I highly recommend giving the info in stages; where it can be more easily absorbed and then applied. Certainly, after getting all of those basics down, even if not perfected, the pilot will have a better understanding of what to do next without being overwhelmed.

Again, you've provided some clarity from the standpoint of a pilot who is in the transitional stage...

Great input, it's moved me to divide each of the skills classes into segments I and II which will not only help the "progression" factor, but it will help divide the clinic time more effectively as well.

Now that it's broken up a bit, I'm hoping to hear about more specific skill sets that have not been included in the list.

Anyone?

I would love to see what kind of drills iQuad does to help sharpen their skills.

Tequila shot car races, you know, the usual... <grin>

Seriously, with iQuad team practice, we just DO IT (all), hard and tight, repetitively. (sounds hot - eh?)

As an individual, I generally drill with geometric flight patterns, curves, clockwork, bicycle rotations and snap 45's... All in varied combinations.

Also, I do a great deal of it (especially bicycle and clockwork) close to the ground (i.e. no cheating - solid frame of reference).

John Barresi

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#26 monkey

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:27 PM

Monkey see, Monkey sometimes do!

I intend to go over this in detail later, ie, likely tomorrow, however two things :

1] Id have to heartily agree with John that clockwork, especially 1/8th turns, is an intermediate thing.

2] While I certainly agree that figure 8 winding can work as I used it for many years, I can also say with 100% certainty that winding in straight lines on the winder works more consistently. Use whichever way one likes to use but, wow, this keeps coming up and coming up... Don't make me write another article on it for REVisions... :D

Issue 55
All Lined Up
http://www.kitelife....s55/content.php

(I had it handy because the boss made me go do a list of every REVisions I'd ever written)

And ya, "Horse" is an excellent idea!
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#27 Kitelife

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:30 PM

2] While I certainly agree that figure 8 winding can work as I used it for many years, I can also say with 100% certainty that winding in straight lines on the winder works more consistently. Use whichever way one likes to use but, wow, this keeps coming up and coming up... Don't make me write another article on it for REVisions... :D

Simple mathematics... If neither end of the lines rotates as you wind, and you pull 'em out straight... Are the lines twisted?

Answer is NO, figure eight or straight, doesn't matter... Straight is faster, easier ergonomically, and it makes better use of the spacer on the winder, lessening the chance of lines jumping off.

Debate (yet again) for another topic.

John Barresi

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#28 Love2fly

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 10:46 PM

Tequila shot car races, you know, the usual... <grin>

Seriously, with iQuad team practice, we just DO IT (all), hard and tight, repetitively. (sounds hot - eh?)

As an individual, I generally drill with geometric flight patterns, curves, clockwork, bicycle rotations and snap 45's... All in varied combinations.

Also, I do a great deal of it (especially bicycle and clockwork) close to the ground (i.e. no cheating - solid frame of reference).


Sweet!

Posted ImageWorks for me! ;)

At this point, the drills and any tidbits that would enhance my skills would be helpful and what I'd be interested in if I was attending the clinic.
Laura
 
*** Any day flying is a good day; have a great one! 
**** REVS: Fly it, you'll like it!
***** L.S.P. ... It's worth the trip!
 
Posted Image

#29 Kitelife

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:10 AM

If you watch Dock Play 2 or 3, you'll see a number of repeated series... These are good examples of the combinations I favor, and how I mix them up.

Trick is, set up a combination that connects and exercises several skills in sequence, with rhythm and authority. ;)

As a competitor, I was one of the few who never had a set routine (with the exception of Bugs Bunny)...

Instead, I had a whole set of combinations in my arsenal and controlled the timing and angles of the turns to match the music.

Drills in application. ;)

John Barresi

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#30 Dean750

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:47 AM

More advanced, but I've always liked working on reverse octagons both just the figure and with other things thrown in. Like alternate direction bicycle spins on the points, or clockwork. 1/8 turn is a challenge. Well they all are, thats why it's my favorite thing to work on. But try the reverse octagon with a single clock turn at each point. 8 sides, 8 clock turns. Bigger challenge is to clock turn in the oppisit direction of the octagon.

I'd still like to be a part or at least see a team of tricksters. Tristan put a video out naming the beginning. (Coin Toss)
Team coin toss to 45 landing looks like a very dramatic beginning to a ballet in my head anyway. Or as each member of the team is announced they could coin toss to the 45. Posted Image Looks hot in my head either way. Posted Image It's only really a half axle to landing. So maybe it's not as risky as it sounds. Ollie to 45 might be risky.
Got an idea of getting the falling leaf into a team routine too. Posted Image

Sorry, wayyyy too much thought this morning I'm sure. Hadn't had my coffee yet. Sluuuuuuuuuurp!
Starting to mellow a bit now. Better get ready and get to work before I start thinking again with the key board so close. Posted Image

Thoughtful as always,

Dean

#31 Kitelife

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:22 PM

Bottom line, if you don't try it, and DRILL it, you won't learn it effectively.

This is where you distinguish the difference between "try" and "do".

"Do" doesn't mean you master it in one stroke, it means you repeat with intent, and no judgment as you make mistakes, which will make you better.

"Try" is just having the *idea* that you want to get better, but end up doing the same thing you've always done, or give something up after a few tries.

Don't over-think it, try and try again, SEE the maneuver happening in your mind's eye, even if you think you can't do it, visualize all the way.

Don't let your mind run games, we all have an innate tendency to kick our own ass internally... That's bull, it's just kites, go, go, go, go!

It doesn't come right away, and more so, it takes an average of 30-45 minutes working SPECIFICALLY on 1-3 things (only) before you start to crack the shell, so to speak.

You all have the ability, there's no great physical or mental prowess required, I assure you... It's methodology, repetition and desire that define the learning.

Gospel, all the way.

John Barresi

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#32 Love2fly

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:34 PM

Bottom line, if you don't try it, and DRILL it, you won't learn it effectively.

...

"Do" doesn't mean you master it in one stroke, it means you repeat with intent, and no judgment as you make mistakes, which will make you better....


It doesn't come right away, and more so, it takes an average of 30-45 minutes working SPECIFICALLY on 1-3 things (only) before you start to crack the shell, so to speak.....

You all have the ability, there's no great physical or mental prowess required, I assure you... It's methodology, repetition and desire that define the learning.

Gospel, all the way.


You are soooooooooo right!!! Well said.
Laura
 
*** Any day flying is a good day; have a great one! 
**** REVS: Fly it, you'll like it!
***** L.S.P. ... It's worth the trip!
 
Posted Image

#33 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:41 PM

You are soooooooooo right!!! Well said.


Piano scales are done repeatedly and they should never be a chore.

Perfection is, of course, never achieved so we keep on doing the scales for the aesthetic pleasure.

The reverse 'team parallel' ladder ups were a case in point. What can be done individually expands exponentially when you do it in team <grins>

Felix

#34 HedgeWarden

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 05:08 PM

Howard, all noted. :)

If you make it to the clinic, you'll get a quick sense of what you're interested in trying after just a couple of class sessions.

If I remember right, you and I have not had our "5 minutes" on the handles together yet. :)


Waiting with excitement for those 5 minutes, John. :P :P
-Howard
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#35 glider

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 08:35 AM

Bottom line, if you don't try it, and DRILL it, you won't learn it effectively.
<snip>


I remember skipping pizza night at one of the festivals and staying on the field to practice flying to the edges, 180 now and flying back to the other edge, repeat. There was a building in the distance that was a good "anchor" for a hover and clockwork. Three hours of that and I felt much better prepared for group flying.

I like the idea of adding drills.

Dave
Portland, OR

#36 monkey

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:26 AM

Much in line with John's approach and Felix's comparison to piano scales, it IS all about drilling the various bits of flying over and over and over again.

Almost any time I go out, I like to spend at least 1/2 just doing the basics. Flying straight lines, in forwards and reverse. Sharp, crisp corners. Holding it dead still for extended periods. And ya, piles of clockwork practice, right above the ground. Usually with some rhythmic music on as well (janet jackson anyone? you think I'm kidding, you work on your clockwork to Rhythm Nation, you'll be SHARP!)

When I actually manage to dust off a guitar here and there, it's much the same. Scales and repetition.
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#37 Felix Mottram

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:20 PM

Much in line with John's approach and Felix's comparison to piano scales, it IS all about drilling the various bits of flying over and over and over again.

Almost any time I go out, I like to spend at least 1/2 just doing the basics. Flying straight lines, in forwards and reverse. Sharp, crisp corners. Holding it dead still for extended periods. And ya, piles of clockwork practice, right above the ground. Usually with some rhythmic music on as well (janet jackson anyone? you think I'm kidding, you work on your clockwork to Rhythm Nation, you'll be SHARP!)

When I actually manage to dust off a guitar here and there, it's much the same. Scales and repetition.


Thanks for your post David,

The most important thing is that it should be enjoyable and not a chore. Repetition may appear to be boring but if the flier* sees it that way they will never succeed <grins>

Felix

*I know some like that...

#38 Dean750

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 10:26 AM

Rhythm Nation? Posted Image Good idea Mr. Monk. I'll have to start working with that one. It's so catchy I can still hear the tune after all these years just from your mention of it. Course it's stuck in my head now. If that don't change I might have something for ya next time I see ya. Posted Image Posted Image

Takes getting to know the tune, but I really like practicing to NonPoint - In The Air. Best remix of Phil's version I've heard yet. More transition than the original.
I heard someone standing behind me once talking with another someone about the ability to transition.
So theres a thought, maybe when everyone leaves the clinic they could have a 4 to 5 move string to practice at home that works on not just the basics but hand and body position for what will be learned later? A string of transition. Start sloooow till you can run it at full speed boogie woogie.

Just a thought.

Dean



#39 monkey

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 10:47 AM

Thanks for your post David,

The most important thing is that it should be enjoyable and not a chore. Repetition may appear to be boring but if the flier* sees it that way they will never succeed <grins>


Indeed, a KEY point, it must be fun and enjoyable, and for me, it is, that first half an hour of warmup is relaxing!
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#40 Steve de Rooy

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 11:18 AM

Oh drillin is a good thing... but just getting time on the handles is the only way...

The more you do the more you get better at it... and what I love about flying.... everyday you go out.. its a different day

And about the lines rapping... Dj De Rooy in the house... Rapin away... hahahah Bring on the beat....

Both strait Wind and the figure 8 you can both do and they both will come out the same...

I find the strait wind is a fast I find... and I have very little problems with it...




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