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Progression and difficulty levels?


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#1 Kitelife

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 12:38 PM

Just working over some detail for the West Coast Rev Clinic, and I figured it's time to bring this up for discussion...

What individual skill sets fall under what difficulty level, and how would you group them for classes?

Here's the first draft I've come up with:

== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==

Pre-flight 101

  • Rev sail types and uses, assembly and tear down.
  • Different spar options, uses and mixed frames.
  • Bungee tension / sail tension checks (vertical spars).
  • Cleaning your sail, general kite maintenance.
  • Line types, weights, lengths and applications.
  • Line equalization / checking for stretched lines and fixing them.
  • Line management (winding, unwinding, storing).
  • Adjustable handles, why and how.

== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==

Novice I


  • Body (stance, arms, hands, handle grip).
  • Launching, loading and line tension.
  • Relaunching from the ground, inverted (crash position).
  • Essential inputs for steering without over-control.

Novice II


  • Hovering upright and facing right or left.
  • Hard stops, in control.
  • 180 turns.

== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==

Intermediate I

  • Sliding from sideways hover or upright.
  • Hovering at odd angles.
  • Basic flight patterns (figure 8, squares, etc).
  • Edge of window exercises, all maneuvers.
  • Targeted landings, straight or at 45 degrees.
  • Light wind techniques.
Intermediate II

  • Inverted hover.
  • Tip pivots (up and down).
  • Bicycle rotations (spin in place).
  • Clockwork turns (1/4, 1/8 in place).
  • Reverse flight, straight flight path.

== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==

Advanced I

  • Inverted slide.
  • Flight maneuvers (compulsories).
  • Combinations, connecting maneuvers.
  • Beginning team maneuvers (docking, thread, ball, burst, etc).
Advanced I

  • Traveling (L-R or R-L) bicycle rotations and clockwork.
  • Reverse flight, curves and corners.
  • Tricks (Axel, Flic Flacs, Falling Leaf).
  • See-and-do exercises (like "Horse" in basketball).
  • Advanced team maneuvers (blender, fly through, weaves, etc).

== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==

So with all that, it's time to flesh it out... I know there's more I've missed, and some things might stand to be reordered for proper workshop/clinic flow.

I'd love to hear from all of you about how you feel these items might be rearranged, added or removed to improve the process as fliers progress.

If you want to help me out with this, just copy/paste my main list above and add or change in bold or color so I can easily identify and consider?

==

Remember, this is the beginning foundation for our classes in Long Beach come March. ;)

Thanks guys!

John Barresi

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#2 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 12:57 PM

<snip>

  • Body position, style of grip on handles. <snip>
Thanks guys!


JB,

I am going to 'jump in' because I think that there is a big issue here and it almost certainly affects beginners and experts alike.

If you look at the images of grid flying the fliers are almost always in what I would describe as 'passive mode'.

In order to take things forward we need to consider the advantages (without a doubt in my view) of adopting a more 'dynamic' position on the ground in order to respond more precisely to condition changes and to achieve more 'accurate' flying.

Paradoxically working on flying 'very slowly' seems to provide considerable insight here and I am especially interested in the low wind situations where exaggerated body position may be very helpful.

Felix

#3 Kitelife

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:22 PM

At the iQuad clinics, we teach both passive and dynamic body positions, each for their respective values.

I have no doubt you've got a more specific idea at hand Felix, but I've not been able to derive it from your post.

What are you suggesting exactly?

And, is this something that pertains more to grid (i.e. another topic), or to formulating a curriculum for clinics?

John Barresi

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#4 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 01:43 PM

At the iQuad clinics, we teach both passive and dynamic body positions, each for their respective values.

I have no doubt you've got a more specific idea at hand Felix, but I've not been able to derive it from your post.

What are you suggesting exactly?

And, is this something that pertains more to grid (i.e. another topic), or to formulating a curriculum for clinics?


JB,

Sorry,

I should have been more explicit.

Body position and hand position considerations are appropriate for beginners, intermediates, advanced fliers and the crucially, in my view, 'the skill set we do not know about yet'. While the physical kite can be tweaked the capability of the flier to impart significant influence is fundamental.

<grins>

Felix

#5 Love2fly

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:22 PM

Hi John-

How's everything?

Being able to do clockwork (or whatever) in the center of the window is one thing, but to be able to do it in various parts of the window is probably an advanced level skill.... but for you to contemplate Posted Image .
Laura
 
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Posted Image

#6 awindofchange

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 04:39 PM

I think for the beginner - line management would be good to throw in there. Setup and take down, winding lines to prevent tangles, etc...
That is if the beginner section is designed for someone who just got their brand new Rev and is learning how to fly. If it is geared towards pilots who already know line management then disregard. :)

#7 Kitelife

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 05:38 PM

Laura, EXELLENT point on different parts of window, I'll be sure to build that into the Intermediate curriculum. :)

Kent, I agree that line management is critical, something we build into a separate initial orientation for first time clinic participants before they even get into the 'skills' stuff. ;)

Along with this, we also go through the different spars, sails, combinations thereof, line selection, kite care and an introduction to basic Rev theory.

More, more, this is great stuff. :)

John Barresi

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#8 Dean750

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 10:13 PM


Novice


  • Body position, style of grip on handles.
  • Launching, loading and line tension.
  • Relaunching from the ground, inverted (crash position).
  • Essential inputs for steering without over-control.
  • Inverted, upright, facing right or left.
  • Clockwork turns (1/4, 1/8 in place).
  • Hard stops, in control. (Hit the brakes before the crash)
  • 180 turns.

Intermediate


  • Targeted landings, straight or at 45 degrees.
  • Inverted slide and sliding from sideways hover or upright.
  • Hovering at odd angles.
  • Tip pivots (up and down).
  • Bicycle rotations (spin in place).
  • Basic flight patterns (figure 8, squares, etc).
  • Reverse flight, straight flight path.
  • Light wind techniques. (Just because you know there'll be at least one day of wind)
Advanced

  • Traveling (L-R or R-L) bicycle rotations and clockwork.
  • Flight maneuvers (compulsories).
  • Reverse flight, curves and corners.
  • Tricks (Axel, Flic Flacs, Falling Leaf).
  • Combinations, connecting maneuvers.



Thats about all I got. Posted Image

Edited for missing an empty bullet. Oops

Edited by Dean750, 04 January 2010 - 10:14 PM.


#9 Kitelife

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:43 AM

Thats about all I got. Posted Image

Edited for missing an empty bullet. Oops

Reasoning for the rearrangement?

Loving all input, just need a little more 'why' behind it. ;)

John Barresi

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#10 andelscott

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:01 AM

I think for the beginner - line management would be good to throw in there. Setup and take down, winding lines to prevent tangles, etc...


Even for beginners, I'd add:
  • line equalisation / checking for stretched lines and fixing 'em;
  • bungee tension / sail tension checks (vertical spars).
Ironically seems easier to diagnose problem on someone else's kite than one's own because we just wanna fly! :kid_smartass:
Andy

#11 Jeepster

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 09:11 AM

... Kent, I agree that line management is critical, something we build into a separate initial orientation for first time clinic participants before they even get into the 'skills' stuff. ;)


John,

Why not put together a "pre-launch" list of items to teach ... not necessarily a "pre-novice" list. Line management, assembly/disassemble, sail tension, etc.. The lists you've assembled are great for focusing on what to practice next. The "pre-launch" list could help the rest of us get beginners off the ground.

One item that you should teach is the figure-eight winding method to help with proper line management.

Cheers,
Tom

#12 andelscott

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:11 AM

One item that you should teach is the figure-eight winding method to help with proper line management.


Are you suggesting that figure-of-eight is the only way to help with proper line management? :devil:

Lights blue touch paper and retires...
Andy

#13 play365

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:52 AM

Are you suggesting that figure-of-eight is the only way to help with proper line management? :devil:

Lights blue touch paper and retires...


Yes Posted Image



GARY




Posted Image

#14 Jeepster

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:55 AM

Are you suggesting that figure-of-eight is the only way to help with proper line management? :devil:

Lights blue touch paper and retires...


Andelscott,

Thanks for asking. I'd never suggest that it's the ONLY way ... after all, one can simply wad there lines up ... or use a stuff sack ... or use a Halo winder ... or wind in circles ... or some other less than idea method. Most youngsters start with training wheels when first learning to ride a bicycle, so I guess one should be gentle with those who are confused by the intricacies of figure-eight winding.

Cheers,
Tom

#15 John F

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:59 AM

JB
You list looks good. In the advanced I think there is a need for something about moving the kite with LE held at angle and being up. More precisely the motions in the Roman Numberal X in compulsories. That is one of the hardest manuevers I have encountered. Side sliding high in the window at an angle seems impossible. I also think side sliding period LE up is fairly difficult. The problem is getting the motion.

John

#16 Kitelife

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:20 PM

Folks, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I need to get this topic back on point...

I'm trying to identify skills (i.e. flight) and their classifications, whereas with "pre-flight" stuff like line winding and such, that curriculum is established and used at our clinics already. ;)

John Barresi

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#17 HedgeWarden

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:31 PM

JB,

Your list looks pretty good. It classifies me as a graduated novice, and intermediate wannabee. Very close to what I'm thinking about my skills so far.

I've not had any experience flying with others, so "Grid work" is totally foreign to me (I assume we are not all to become iQuad grads) As the sole "Individual" voter, ... obviously don't take that as a hard desire.

I don't know about moving mastery of 4 and 8 point clock work down to the novice level. Seems better in the intermediate level. Although, obviously some rotation control would be introduced at the novice level.

FWIW :P
-Howard
No, this is my first childhood!

#18 Dean750

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:46 PM

Reasoning for the rearrangement?

Loving all input, just need a little more 'why' behind it. Posted Image



The reasoning for my rearrangment besides just seeing if I could do it in my colors was that owning your hover in the 4 basic orientations is the beggining of the fine control for anything else you'll learn down the line. The clock work, at least to the 1/4 turn just seemed like a good combination with the owning of the hover just because to go from one hover to the next is clockwork isn't it? I personally believe clockwork introduces the flier to different hand positions to just about anything you can do with a Rev. Only difference really is that it's being held in place instead of moving. Example: LE down, LE tips at 10 and 4. Just a little bit more brake and your flying at a 45 degree in reverse. Thats more of an advanced thing, right? Just a thought.

Dean

#19 Kitelife

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 07:43 PM

Aye, clockwork will stay in the intermediate section for now... Those who have progressed somewhat (like Dean) can forget how full a novice's plate feels without such a thing being added to the mix.

Hovering in all positions is the natural "step up" before clockwork, which isn't hovering in all positions, it's "clicking" from angle to angle.

I hear you Dean, just using a different set of glasses over here. ;)

==

Howard, all noted. :)

If you make it to the clinic, you'll get a quick sense of what you're interested in trying after just a couple of class sessions.

If I remember right, you and I have not had our "5 minutes" on the handles together yet. :)

==

Mr. Farrell... Good point on sliding at an odd angle... Have you tried putting your leading (top) hand down by your hip, pulling down and back, instead of at shoulder height?

You should find a pronounced increase in lift, once you get used to the new position.

With regard to curriculum however, this bit of sliding is one of those "progressive" skills, all we effectively can do is teach the right hand position, it's up to the flier to learn from there through repeated practice, imho.

John Barresi

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#20 Kitelife

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 07:55 PM

Okie dokie, I went ahead and added "Pre-flight 101" to the working list in my first post here... Might as well, right?

Also, I'm thinking a game of "horse" might be fun for the advanced class... Like "Monkey see, Monkey do"... And, we HAVE a Monkey. :D

It'd be fun to have one of the instructors run off a short combo, then have the advanced folks try and match the maneuver.

John Barresi

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