190 replies to this topic

[andelscott]

Cos where are you numbering from and which are columns and which are rows?... Or ....could it be we just guess and fly it anyway.

Fair point - I've flown with groups who number rows from top and even those that number from the bottom. Although "each is valid", when it comes to a MegaTeam, I for one would prefer a consistent approach...

The 'Up North...' crew were pretty clued up though...

Yes, but they also had the benefit of some rather fine pumpkin and tomato soup as I recall!

[Harrier]

Fair point - I've flown with groups who number rows from top and even those that number from the bottom. Although "each is valid", when it comes to a MegaTeam, I for one would prefer a consistent approach...

To be fair my post as usual was tongue in cheek or just plain cheeky, the diagrams have been numbered however the numbering system is open to interpretation which was my point, tis best nothing is left unclear if folk are to easily grasp the plot. Alphanumeric perhaps?

Edited by Harrier, 31 December 2009 - 03:56 AM.

[big bri]

consistancy is key,avoids confusion.Confusion,,,,,,Which then brings errors and eats into flying time,

Confident,clear,consistent instruction is always best.

It was Pumpkin and Tomatoe soup
Not
Tomatoe and Pumpkin,,,,Its the same,but diffrent.Call it Pumpkin and Tomatoe 100% of the time.Then everyone knows what ther getting

Once call it Tomatoe and Pumpkin once,confusion creeps in and we have to many cooks spoiling the soup.Even call it Nut Pumpkin and Tomatoe and that alone can cause question and confusion...

One common language spoken by all.

BRIAN...dip ya bread and a couple of these help

[Felix Mottram]

consistancy is key,avoids confusion.Confusion,,,,,,Which then brings errors and eats into flying time,

Confident,clear,consistent instruction is always best.

<snip>

Hi Brian,

Confident instruction reflects the knowledge of those receiving the instructions. This is, I think, what we are working towards. There has to be a 'contract' in place!

Felix

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

I've just had a look at the video Felix posted earlier in this thread and realized it wasn't the one I thought it was. No wonder Bartman and some others found it a bit intimidating, that video is just a the edited highlights, otherwise known as "The Scary Bits" take a look at this video it shows the whole Magafly and you will see Stephen didn't throw us all in at the deep end he started us off very gently and gradually cranked up the volume. By the time we got to the scary bit we were all well in the zone and cooking on gas.

Oh, and just in case anybody is interested, I am on the bottom row directly under Jonsey's see through kite.

[bartman]

I understand the concern about hurting people's feelings when they are told they do not have the skills for a mega-fly, but seriously that is not much of a reason and you can't do this if you are going to worry about hurting feelings.

If I asked JB to let me be a team member of iQuad he'd say no. If my feelings are hurt by that it his not his problem and I'm foolish to think I have the experience or the right to be on his team in the first place.

The world isn't fair. That's life. Get over it.

Bart

[Felix Mottram]

I've just had a look at the video Felix posted earlier in this thread and realized it wasn't the one I thought it was.
<snip>

Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting the link.

The video link I posted was for a very short section just at the very end before the kites split to the sides and arced to the ground.

Felix

[big bri]

Yeh,cheers Bob.
Always worth a watch that video.

Cream Cakes and Mr Jones always spring to mind though.Stuffed are Benifits up....lol

BRIAN...

[Felix Mottram]

Yeh,cheers Bob.
Always worth a watch that video.

Cream Cakes and Mr Jones always spring to mind though.Stuffed are Benifits up....lol

BRIAN...

I just checked and the clip I posted was from the same session, as I said, the last minutes...

"Cream cakes"? will we ever forget...?

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 31 December 2009 - 09:21 AM.

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

. . . . .

If I asked JB to let me be a team member of iQuad he'd say no. If my feelings are hurt by that it his not his problem and I'm foolish to think I have the experience or the right to be on his team in the first place.

The world isn't fair. That's life. Get over it.
. . . . .
Bart

Well said Bart, and on that note -

I have been bouncing around a this thought for a while but I hadn’t posted it sooner because I thought it may be a bit controversial and I didn’t want to risk rocking this particular boat. But I think the time has come to take the bull by the horns.

It seems to me that we need to ask or re-ask a few simple questions.

What is this Register for?
Unless I have totally missed the point here, the primary purpose is to aid the setting up and organisation of a block buster Mega-fly

The next question is, Who will be using it?
Well my money for “the three most likely to” is on Felix, John and Stephen there may well be others but that seems like a good starting point to me.

If they are going to be the users they need to specify the product. They know what they need what the rest of us think is neither here nor there. So I propose that we ask Felix, John and Stephen to disappear off into cyber space and to decide what they need and then start to build the register. I would think that the majority of the list will be fairly straight forward as most of the world’s top teams will be included en mass. It will be us lesser mortals that are going to give them the problems. I feel they should take a leaf out of the Free Masons book with this one. Entry is by invitation only. Every one thinks they have an idea of what they are looking for and how proposed new new members are selected but unless you are on the inside nobody really knows. Not everybody chooses to accept the invitation but weather they do or they don’t it is usually considered an honour.

They will be open accusations of elitism but my advice to them would be to congratulate their accusers on their powers of perception. Surely that is what this is about identifying those that can.

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

Thanks Bob,

<grins>

On further careful reading, I hope that the end result will be inclusive rather than anything else. However, nothing is written in stone <oops!> and everyone will be "mandated to contribute to the discussions". Enough?

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 31 December 2009 - 09:49 AM.

[glider]

Not addressed at anyone in particular:

I'm having trouble imagining how the registration requirements or pre-qualification requirements of IROR will be disseminated to flyers. I think back to WSIKF last year. There were people joining in the mega-fly who almost certainly do not frequent Rev forums. I'd bet that if the IROR requirements had been published on this forum for all of 2008, many of the people who showed up for the WSIKF 2009 would not have heard about it. I suppose one needs to build the requirements, then worry about distribution, eh?

So, maybe the first year that IROR requirements are in place, many people get turned away when they show up, kite in hand, ready to help set a mega-fly record. That sounds harsh and maybe unnecessary if the wind is perfect, the field is giant and time is unlimited. OTOH, it may be a good thing to turn people away if the mega-fly needs to fit into a festival schedule and must be contained to one regulation-size field.

If the goal is to establish a "by invitation only" group of fliers, the Kite Party model seems adequate. Dave simply requests that flyers sign up on the forum. If the organizer doesn't know you and your abilities, he asks about it. I really hope part of pre-qualifying doesn't involve submitting videos. Word of mouth, competition results, past experience, and most importantly the leader's decision on the day of the event should cover it.

@ JB, Nice post on the grid.

Dave
Portland, OR

[Felix Mottram]

Not addressed at anyone in particular:

I'm having trouble imagining how the registration requirements or pre-qualification requirements of IROR will be disseminated to flyers. I think back to WSIKF last year. There were people joining in the mega-fly who almost certainly do not frequent Rev forums. I'd bet that if the IROR requirements had been published on this forum for all of 2008, many of the people who showed up for the WSIKF 2009 would not have heard about it. I suppose one needs to build the requirements, then worry about distribution, eh?

So, maybe the first year that IROR requirements are in place, many people get turned away when they show up, kite in hand, ready to help set a mega-fly record. That sounds harsh and maybe unnecessary if the wind is perfect, the field is giant and time is unlimited. OTOH, it may be a good thing to turn people away if the mega-fly needs to fit into a festival schedule and must be contained to one regulation-size field.

If the goal is to establish a "by invitation only" group of fliers, the Kite Party model seems adequate. Dave simply requests that flyers sign up on the forum. If the organizer doesn't know you and your abilities, he asks about it. I really hope part of pre-qualifying doesn't involve submitting videos. Word of mouth, competition results, past experience, and most importantly the leader's decision on the day of the event should cover it.

@ JB, Nice post on the grid.

Dave
Portland, OR

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your posts. Everything is up for discussion. Registering via the forum seems ideal.

What I think, in summary, is required, is some way in which potential participants can confirm that they 'have read and understand' the terms and conditions for taking part, confirm that they 'have the necessary abilities' and that they agree to the conditions and 'sign on the dotted line'.

It could very well translate to paper in some circumstances....

Felix

[Keith Griffiths]

To answer the question "how to let people know about this" I would imagine articles written for the AKA magazine, The Kiteflier (UK) and STACK organisation newsletter would go a long way to reaching everyone appropriate and capable. Sure there will be some capable fliers that are not captured by this but are they the sort of fliers that 'join in' anyway?

The other thing to consider would be the public liability insurance aspect of this. Would an event's insurance (assuming that they have any) cover a random collection of 'unknown' and probably not invited fliers or should each one have their own liability insurance just in case. And no, I am not touting for STACK UK membership (which includes insurance) by asking this.

[Felix Mottram]

To answer the question "how to let people know about this" I would imagine articles written for the AKA magazine, The Kiteflier (UK) and STACK organisation newsletter would go a long way to reaching everyone appropriate and capable. Sure there will be some capable fliers that are not captured by this but are they the sort of fliers that 'join in' anyway?

The other thing to consider would be the public liability insurance aspect of this. Would an event's insurance (assuming that they have any) cover a random collection of 'unknown' and probably not invited fliers or should each one have their own liability insurance just in case. And no, I am not touting for STACK UK membership (which includes insurance) by asking this.

Thanks Kieth,

I think that there are lines of communication for letting people know.

I am very interested in your question about public liability insurance. We are intent on asking fliers to 'confirm their capability', possibly with reference to an established 'mentor' (not tester...). As a 'paid up member of STACK', am I able to ask you for advice on this? We can go to PM or e-mail...

Thanks

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 31 December 2009 - 12:27 PM.

[Harrier]

I understand the concern about hurting people's feelings when they are told they do not have the skills for a mega-fly, but seriously that is not much of a reason and you can't do this if you are going to worry about hurting feelings.

The world isn't fair. That's life. Get over it.

Bart

We tend to not be that concerned about hurting feelings around here, ....if they dont want to play properly....

[Kitelife]

ROFLMAO!!!

That's awesome.

[bartman]

We tend to not be that concerned about hurting feelings around here, ....if they dont want to play properly....

Tough crowd...

Bart

[dazlarsen]

We tend to not be that concerned about hurting feelings around here, ....if they dont want to play properly....

Bruce

That has to be voted the best video,what a great job

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

Nice one Bruce.