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Line Managment and care


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#1 big bri

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 12:39 AM

Quick tips :) on keeping your lines nice and in order .Anyone else have a good tip that relates to lines.Please add

I was once told by a freind[slk pilot]. Always wind on a Figure eight winder,in a figure eight motion,,,,why,some may ask.
If you wind lines on a Halo winder or just wind round and round on any winder.Your actually winding TWISTS into the line.This can distort or make the kite fly odd.
Imagine twisting a piece of rope or your telephone flex,hover flex.Weve all done it.Twist until it gets tight,so when you let go of one end.The rope spins and spins.This is what your lines end up like if you dont use the figure eight for winding :) .

BRIAN...

#2 andelscott

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:26 AM

I'm not so sure. Whichever way you wind is likely to introduce twists (unless it's wound on a large cable drum). I would have thought that the key element is to optimise the tension so that as you unwind later the twists fall out as you go and that there are no areas of undue stretching whilst stored.

Figure of eight might allow for less tension (I think the radius of turning at each point of the card will be greater - introducing less stress - than at the two ends of a straight wind) so might be beneficial for that reason. But then I might be talking complete balderdash - it wouldn't be the first time. :lol:

I've tried both figure of eight and straight winds, but now just use a straight wind - for me it's quicker to wind away and set up.

I tend to walk backwards when winding and ensure I always hold the 'card' the same way up in the same hand, whether winding or unwinding. This minimises the "twists and throughs" on setup. Works for me, but YMMV!
Andy

#3 Jeepster

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:56 AM

... Always wind on a Figure eight winder,in a figure eight motion ...

BRIAN...


Brian,

You speak from the pulpit of truth! But, beware, there is a tribe of people in the far northwest of the colonies who have not yet achieved enlightenment. Please continue to preach the Gospel and don't be discouraged by those who would try to lead you astray.

Cheers,
Tom

#4 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 06:13 AM

Brian,

You speak from the pulpit of truth! But, beware, there is a tribe of people in the far northwest of the colonies who have not yet achieved enlightenment. Please continue to preach the Gospel and don't be discouraged by those who would try to lead you astray.

Cheers,
Tom





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#5 big bri

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:30 AM

I'm not so sure. Whichever way you wind is likely to introduce twists (unless it's wound on a large cable drum). I would have thought that the key element is to optimise the tension so that as you unwind later the twists fall out as you go and that there are no areas of undue stretching whilst stored.

Figure of eight might allow for less tension (I think the radius of turning at each point of the card will be greater - introducing less stress - than at the two ends of a straight wind) so might be beneficial for that reason. But then I might be talking complete balderdash - it wouldn't be the first time. :lol:

I've tried both figure of eight and straight winds, but now just use a straight wind - for me it's quicker to wind away and set up.

I tend to walk backwards when winding and ensure I always hold the 'card' the same way up in the same hand, whether winding or unwinding. This minimises the "twists and throughs" on setup. Works for me, but YMMV!



You can lead a Horse to Water,but a Pencil mustbe lead.
Here endeth the lesson ....TOM :)

BRIAN...

#6 Jeepster

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:47 AM

... I tend to walk backwards when winding and ensure I always hold the 'card' the same way up in the same hand, whether winding or unwinding. ...

Brian,

Hopefully the new missionary from the East will be able to bring the truth to our small tribe of mislead individuals. But, you'll have to do something about the uninformed on your little island.

It's amazing how many superstitious rituals they go through to create the illusion that what they are doing is correct. Walk backwards ... hold the card in the "same" hand every time ... hold the card exactly the same way every time ... they probably hold it at the same height and repeat the same incantation also. Geez, it's so sad.

Good luck mate,
Tom

#7 quaa714

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:32 AM

You can lead a Horse to Water,but a Pencil mustbe lead.
Here endeth the lesson ....TOM :)

BRIAN...


OR.......
You can lead a horticulture,
but you can't make her think! :devil:

YMMV but I've tried both and prefer the straight wind.

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"Slack lines are fine lines!"


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#8 Jeepster

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:48 AM

Brian,

The light bulb just came on for me!!!

I now understand iQuad's kokopelli icons on their equipment. It is really their secret ceremonial incantation to keep their lines tangle free. It's totally excessive and unnecessary, but still kind of quaint for those who insist on using the twist winding method.

Cheers,
Tom

#9 big bri

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 09:50 AM

Its all good,until someone gets ya in a birds nest with them

THEN WATCH THOSE TWIST TURN INTO WIND KNOTS AND SNAGS........You Have Been Warned my freinds :ani_wallbash: :big_bangin: :big_blowup: :)

BRIAN...

#10 FortFlyer

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:18 AM

Been straight winding on a figure 8 for 15 years never had a twist problem (seriously how much could you get with 120" braid).

As long as the pairs are connected separately and you have a finger between the 2 pairs while winding (don't think that even matters) They come out good as old every time, Never had an issue even from early on.

Only time I've ever had a problem with tangles and twists is on a brand new (pre-made) set.

No rituals, incantations, planetary alignments, emp pulses, solar angles, wind meters or hair care products ever needed. Just a little care not to wind sloppy is all.

Now SLK line is a whole different animal which I think is why most get worried it will migrate to quad.
Jim,
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#11 Felix Mottram

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:53 AM

Been straight winding on a figure 8 for 15 years never had a twist problem (seriously how much could you get with 120" braid).
<snip>


Beginners get in knots. Experienced fliers do not. In my view, it is a confidence thing, in part! [Edit] <grins>

Felix

Edited by Felix Mottram, 03 November 2009 - 12:28 PM.


#12 andelscott

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:17 PM

It's amazing how many superstitious rituals they go through to create the illusion that what they are doing is correct. Walk backwards ... hold the card in the "same" hand every time ... hold the card exactly the same way every time ... they probably hold it at the same height and repeat the same incantation also. Geez, it's so sad.


Never mind, Tom. Superstition is not part of my flying vocabulary. How about: manage down the variables to ensure a predictable and replicable outcome? :P

By all means hold on to your mantra of "figure of eight". If it works, fine. If you don't want to evaluate suggestions and other comments constructively, great. After all, continuous improvement doesn't work for everyone. :devil:
Andy

#13 Kitelife

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:15 PM

Whether you wind with the figure-8 or straight method, if you've locked down both ends and they're not rotating, then you bring 'em together and pull 'em apart (by winding/unwinding), any apparent (individual line) twists come out under tension.

The only way a single line can twist (regardless of what you do in the middle - i.e. winding style) is if you allow one extreme end to rotate, adding an individual line twist per rotation.

Simple mathematics.

Whatever works for you, but that little pearl supersedes everything else. ;)

*grumble*urban*grumble*legends*

Try both methods with new sets of lines, side by side... Wind/unwind 5 times each, then walk down one line with your fingernail to push any twists down to the end (should do this anyway from time to time)... Now, which winding method generates more line spin (untwisting) at the end?

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#14 Jeepster

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 06:04 PM

Whether you wind with the figure-8 or straight method, if you've locked down both ends and they're not rotating, then you bring 'em together and pull 'em apart (by winding/unwinding), any apparent (individual line) twists come out under tension. ...


All kidding aside, I agree!!! However, the straight method does introduce more twists into the lines when on the winders. When the new flier unwinds the lines, there are also more "apparent" twists. The experienced flyer pulls, tugs or flies the apparent twists out and all is right with the world. The new flier is dismayed by the apparent twists, attempts to unravel the "mess", loses valuable flying time and becomes frustrated with quads. They even talk about using the shameful method of dual winders. Thus, I honestly believe, the new flier should be instructed to use the figure-8 method until they become more familiar with quad lines.

Since the straight method introduces twist while the lines are on the winder, I wonder how that affects the life of the lines! Does it open up the braid enough to allow dirt into the interior of the braid and shorten the life? Don't know it it's a problem, but still wonder.

Thanks to Bri, I'll never view the iQuad Kokopelli icons without thinking about "line winding incantations."

Cheers,
Tom

#15 Baloo

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:55 PM

I am not sure about the Eight or Straight methods.

One thing I will suggest is, never let A.N.Other wind your lines for you.

There are lots of real honest respectable and experienced folks out there. However there are also some in-experienced or maybe just plain mischevious folks out there too.

#16 big bri

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:00 AM

OK,Lets twist again.

Great little topic.With many diffrent views.

Balloos point is also a goodn....Never Let anyone wind your lines in,,,,Apart from a few jokers :) .Thsy may just not do it correctly.

I would also encourage.Never wind lines in Towards you.While stay stationary.Always walk Toward them when winding.Obvious,but the none belivers are out ther.Dragging your lines over all manner of rubbish,is not good.

Figure of eight is winning so far.
BRIAN...

#17 big bri

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 01:28 AM

JBs take on the twists and winding.From a while ago[waits for monks to say,,,,ITs Me...lol]

http://www.revkites....h...ic=3187&hl=

BRIAN...

Edited by big bri, 04 November 2009 - 01:28 AM.


#18 Keith Griffiths

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 01:50 AM

One thing I will suggest is, never let A.N.Other wind your lines for you.


Vee's had that problem, right handed wind vs left handed wind, one 4 way wrap for every untwist from off of the handles.

Not fun sorting that out :-(
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#19 Jay Nunes

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:12 AM

I wind my Lines right on the Handles in a Figure 8 around the Neoprene..

Also, when setting up.. I attach my lines to the Kite and unwind.
When Breaking down I Wind them Back to the Kite before I unhook the Lines from the Rev.

Like Most Quad Flyers.. I Keep the Right and Left lines together..

I agree... always a great topic with So may different styles..
New Flyers should try different ways to find what works best for them..

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#20 big bri

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:18 AM

This little nuget is a real Obvious one,but the times i have watched people not leave themselves enough room to set up or they set up in a realy poor spot.

I always look around first for Hazards.Especially in strange or unformiliar places.Then look at the ground and count 55 paces as i walk,bare minimum distance for a set of 120ft lines to be run out.Looking at the ground while running out your lines.Could spot some sharp stuff,smelly stuff or that fiver i lost in 1972.
I have watched people.Stake up.Start running lines out and end upagainst Cars,walls,fences,into car parks,,,,,ya can see what im saying.

55paces is my minimum and only a guide.Just to run lines out.Try pacing it next time you run yours out.May just be handy to know

BRIAN...




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