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#41 JeffD

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:39 AM

With the amount and variety of Chinese knock offs and the at least hundreds of millions of dollars involved I can't really see an effective or cost benefit way to stop them.

I've been looking at headphones lately and discovered that Ebay is loaded with what appear to be counterfeits of the well established Sennheiser line. They can't stop even that and there is a lot more money in the headphone business than in the kite business. There are warnings and info about this and a buyer can decide.

If I buy a pair I'll be sure its the original. I can expect better quality and accountability if there's a problem. Stressing quality and accountability is probably a lot more effective than telling people something they're doing without malice is unethical.

If I Youtube'd kites and saw the rev videos that would do it for me.

A piece of a bigger pie might well be had in the long run.
A bit of lemonade might be made with these lemons.

I could probwbly comr up with more corny sayings if I tried.

Sportkiting dual and quad is tiny. Those selling knockoffs advertise, get people involved and put kites in the sky that many more people will see.

Yes some may be satisfied with a knock off or might be turned off by one but they may well be motivated to check Google or Youtube or the local beach for something better. After all, isn't a core truth of this forum that revs are like peanuts; can't stop at one.

I may be wrong and I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should feel or protect their business.

There a plenty of product types where there are cheep generic products and then there's the are the originals. Different identity and business plan.

Just saying it may be better all around if someone flying a knockoff got a friendly reception and something like, "You should try the original. Check Youtube". There are one or two fairly decent Rev fliers there. public/style_emoticons/default/sign_kitelife.gif.

Even teams. public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gifpublic/style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif:blink:

In the U.S. there are plenty of people for whom original and American made is a selling point.

Anyway might as well look on the bright side.

#42 fungus

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 12:24 AM

Hi All
just re visiting this topic
i've been asked to help a new kite flier who has bought an 'american' copy 4 line 'rev'

i will try to be nicePosted Image and if i can help him fly it , then put a REV in his hands and say ' try the real thing'

fungusPosted Image
wHind cHecks Har4 wHimps

#43 --Pete

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 05:50 AM

...The buyer of known illegally made copyrighted goods is, if not equally guilty, is at least complicit in keeping the illegal business operating by knowingly purchasing knocked off goods. ...


"if not equally guilty" / "complicit" is too soft! They ARE equally guilty.

Ripping off anything (intellectual property or a car stereo) and buying anything that WAS ripped off (like intellectual property or a car stereo) are morally equivalent. Period.

But I agree: closing off one will close off the other (and closing off either one will do the job).

I completely disagree with those who think that it is wrong to go after the final buyer. It is exactly that buyer who makes the whole chain (illegal producer, all his distributors, and all the points of sale) profitable. Without the buyer, there IS NO PROBLEM.
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#44 kitejan

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:18 AM

"if not equally guilty" / "complicit" is too soft! They ARE equally guilty.

Ripping off anything (intellectual property or a car stereo) and buying anything that WAS ripped off (like intellectual property or a car stereo) are morally equivalent. Period.

But I agree: closing off one will close off the other (and closing off either one will do the job).

I completely disagree with those who think that it is wrong to go after the final buyer. It is exactly that buyer who makes the whole chain (illegal producer, all his distributors, and all the points of sale) profitable. Without the buyer, there IS NO PROBLEM.


So where do we stand on personally made copies of Revs (or 4 line 'W' shaped 'Rev' like kites if you prefer) these days?

Jan

#45 monkey

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 11:24 AM

As far as I am aware, and I don't speak as an "official" Rev spokesperson, it stands much as it always has.

if you are making one for your own personal use, and not selling it, it's ok.
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#46 --Pete

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:43 PM

So where do we stand on personally made copies of Revs (or 4 line 'W' shaped 'Rev' like kites if you prefer) these days?

Jan


That would generally be considered a "fair use", to borrow from copyright law, and be legal. I don't know how Revolution Kite Company feels about it, though. It's the selling and/or distributing that I'm against.



--Pete
(sesquipedalian man)

#47 awindofchange

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 01:48 PM

As long as you are making it for your own personal use, Rev has no issues about it. If you are making it with the intent on selling it to someone for a profit of any kind, then Rev considers that an infringement and it is seriously looked down upon by Rev and most of the kite flying community.

There have been many who have created some very beautiful designs of their own which are always welcome. They were even bridled and framed in Rev parts which is not an issue either. Those designs were never made with the intent to sell though.

I think it would really be pushing the borders though if you were to make a Rev for your own personal use (or for friends at cost even if no profit is intended) and built it as an exact copy, panel by panel, color for color. This could be considered a very gray area of copying. If the intent is to build a Rev (or Rev's) so that Revolution does not get the sales that their design warrants then .... well.... I will have to leave that up to your own conscience. I know where I would stand on that one.

#48 beach

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:36 PM

Okay I'll pipe up on this one and say do I like it NO, will I over look it, that is some thing I do on a one on one bases.....Posted Image I would like for people to contact me first
and if we agree I may even send you a Revolution corner tab for there kite..... Once again call me first and lets come to terms on the project.... BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image By the way well put Kent and correct....

#49 REVflyer

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:41 AM

Dave Ashworth

#50 makatakam

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:46 PM

Well mine are, they come from America. :P

All this fuss about outsourcing.... my electricity comes at times from France via a French company, some of my gas comes from somewhere near the Urals with help from a lot of European countries, delivered by a German company, my petrol from god knows where.
The company putting up the new offshore generators near here, Danish, with a lot of help from the Dutch.
You wanna live in the dark and cold? I dont.
Friends of mine employed here in the UK by Japanese, Chinese, and Indian companys etc etc etc do you want to see them out of work?
Welcome to the real world.

Of course no right minded person would or should support the stealing of artistic or itellectual property, copying such stuff is not right or fair, we dont need continual telling, we get it.

Questions we get asked over and over when out flying, " what is that?" always answered, "a Revolution kite from America" (even if it just resembles one), next question, "where can I get one?", answer "Kiteworld, but you will have to go online to find them", next question "how much?" answer spoken very quietly and quickly.
I have kites with the LE sleeves worn to shreds by continual hard contact with the ground from handing the kites over to any interested person who wants to take the handles, its what works best, there were just 2 of us flying here for quite while, now there 15-16 regularly, folk who own a lot of Revs between them, and on occaison more that 30 of us, just one message forget about all the big business stuff, get out flying and have fun we sure as hell do.


I would love to own an Airbow, but they're very expensive. Should I wait until a knock-off becomes available? Just playing "Devil's Advocate" here! Would never consider doing that.

When someone begins undermining another's ability to feed his family I have a real PROBLEM with that.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#51 makatakam

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 08:51 PM

So where do we stand on personally made copies of Revs (or 4 line 'W' shaped 'Rev' like kites if you prefer) these days?

Jan


Absolutely correct! Buying stolen property is illegal pretty much everywhere.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#52 makatakam

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 09:27 PM

Okay I'll pipe up on this one and say do I like it NO, will I over look it, that is some thing I do on a one on one bases.....Posted Image I would like for people to contact me first
and if we agree I may even send you a Revolution corner tab for there kite..... Once again call me first and lets come to terms on the project.... BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image By the way well put Kent and correct....


Hi,

It seems I lost your phone number (just kidding, never had it). I don't know if you actually monitor all posts, but I'm gonna give a try here anyway. I'm a member of IKE for about three years, (although the site lists my date of joining as June of this year because I could only get on-line at the local library and screwed up my initial attempt at registering there), and just recently set my avatar there. It is a home-made "revlike" quad-line kite that I built three years ago when I was out of work and caught the REV-BUG, but couldn't afford the real thing. I built it by merely eye-balling a real rev that Mike Kory was nice enough to let me try. After three years of tweaking I actually have it flying like a cross between a 1.5 and Supersonic.

My question is: Would you be gracious enough to let me use this avatar on your site? I appreciate how sensitive you are to patent/trademark/copyright infringment. I have no intent of using that kite for anything other than personal use. I would love to have it as my avatar because of the amount of work I've put into actually making it fly, and how much it has taught me about the aerodynamics of the Revolution design, which has greatly enhanced my experience with the 1.5sle, Phantom full vent, and Supersonic that I have purchased since, plus I'd like to keep the same "identity", so I don't forget who I am (you know, old and senile).

Please, please, please: if I need to beg I'll gladly take a knee.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#53 beach

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:29 AM

Hi,

It seems I lost your phone number (just kidding, never had it). I don't know if you actually monitor all posts, but I'm gonna give a try here anyway. I'm a member of IKE for about three years, (although the site lists my date of joining as June of this year because I could only get on-line at the local library and screwed up my initial attempt at registering there), and just recently set my avatar there. It is a home-made "revlike" quad-line kite that I built three years ago when I was out of work and caught the REV-BUG, but couldn't afford the real thing. I built it by merely eye-balling a real rev that Mike Kory was nice enough to let me try. After three years of tweaking I actually have it flying like a cross between a 1.5 and Supersonic.

My question is: Would you be gracious enough to let me use this avatar on your site? I appreciate how sensitive you are to patent/trademark/copyright infringment. I have no intent of using that kite for anything other than personal use. I would love to have it as my avatar because of the amount of work I've put into actually making it fly, and how much it has taught me about the aerodynamics of the Revolution design, which has greatly enhanced my experience with the 1.5sle, Phantom full vent, and Supersonic that I have purchased since, plus I'd like to keep the same "identity", so I don't forget who I am (you know, old and senile).

Please, please, please: if I need to beg I'll gladly take a knee.


Have at it my friend..... BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#54 makatakam

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:47 AM

Have at it my friend..... BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


Thank you in the EXTREME meaning of the phrase!!!!!!!!! :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin:

It's done, Thank YOU!
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#55 goestoeleven

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:42 PM

Thank you in the EXTREME meaning of the phrase!!!!!!!!! :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin: :blue-grin:

It's done, Thank YOU!


Hey . . . I took that picture (and I've flown that kite :kid_smartass:). I've flown with Mark, and I know he built it for his own use just to learn to fly quads, and now that he's hooked . . . he owns multiple authentic Revs. I'm betting we see him posting over in the tweaks and modifications threads soon. His home built is a pretty nice kite, and it looks great in the sky. So are some of the other kites he's built that are very different from Revs. I also know he's been flying Revs a LOT lately. One last note, Mark is someone who pointed me to IKE and is part of the reason I'm hooked on Revs now to the point where nothing else in the kite bag gets flown other than some SLKs when there are other people's kids around (my kids fly Revs B)).

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#56 Exile

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 08:25 PM

As we were talking about selling home made kites.. I thought that I would bring this to the attention of those that make the call on what ok and whats not

Home made Rev


Granted it's not really that great of a copy, but it IS a copy. Poster even quotes it as a 1.5 SLE
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#57 RevWizard

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 08:50 PM

It is really crappy work and to top it off it is not a REV 1.5 cut. It looks more REV I, possibly scaled down. Even the rods are too long thus preventing ground slides on the LE.

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#58 Watty

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 10:16 PM

As we were talking about selling home made kites.. I thought that I would bring this to the attention of those that make the call on what ok and whats not

Home made Rev


Granted it's not really that great of a copy, but it IS a copy. Poster even quotes it as a 1.5 SLE


ew

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#59 Kitelife

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 10:56 PM

Double EW.

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#60 goestoeleven

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 07:06 AM

I think I have to chime in.

Before everyone piles on this seller, I think you should look at the whole picture. I know that's not the best kite build out there, but I think there's a difference between making one kite for personal use and making thousands for sale that are blatant ripoffs of the Rev design - like what's happening in China. The same seller on ebay has SEVEN real revolution kites for sale at the same time, along with a few other quad lines - and according to a post over at the AKA forum and on ebay, it's due to their personal economic situation. If they are posting at AKA, I'm guessing they're not a counterfeiter. Who knows - maybe making the first one for personal use led to the purchases of the other seven real Revolutions. And if you look at their pricing on the auctions, it's not like they priced it anywhere close to the prices of the real thing. So, maybe look at the whole picture before you pile scorn on this person. It's also possible the person selling the kites is a member here.

I know if I tried to build one, it would not be nice at all - probably worse than that one. Let's see the prototype kites before the Neos Omega - what did they look like? Were they perfect?

This forum is usually about supporting the individual flyer (and this thread is about *$%$#^& the chinese ripoff companies). I think we should actually applaud the person for making the attempt to build one and hope that when his (or her) situation changes, they'll come back to the revolution family.

My two cents.

I think rev should go after this guy.


Mark - I support your home-built rev style kites, and so did Ben.

As we were talking about selling home made kites.. I thought that I would bring this to the attention of those that make the call on what ok and whats not

Home made Rev


Granted it's not really that great of a copy, but it IS a copy. Poster even quotes it as a 1.5 SLE


Exile - I know others on the forums know you from your trip to the coast, but I don't know you other than from your posts here, and you seem like a decent guy. Don't take this the wrong way. The seller lists it as revolution style, doesn't claim it IS a revolution.

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