Jump to content


Photo

Vent direction


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Buschmann

Buschmann
  • Forum Member
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Berlin, Germany

Posted 24 September 2009 - 01:44 PM

High @ all,

my name is buschmann, and i fly now a longtime the same rev.
now i think, perhaps, its time 4 a new one :wacko:

on this way i found youre supercool & rev website and forum B)
and i found full & mid vented revs too... / NICE !

but i have a small question about the vent design.

did anybody testet other vent designs?

so now it is an flying V, but i think a flying A will be faster??

Posted Image


so my old rev is 79"cm by 28" (200cm x 70cm), and i know that one size bigger is mouch more pain in wrists...

is there anywhere an "online rev construction & flight simulation kit"?

...Rev4ever...


#2 big bri

big bri

    BRIAN...

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,656 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK,UP NORTH

Posted 24 September 2009 - 10:52 PM

Hello,glad your enjoying your Rev.
Just a thought on the speed side of things

Buy one of the speed series,sonic,Blast,,,,,,

BRIAN...

#3 Buschmann

Buschmann
  • Forum Member
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Berlin, Germany

Posted 25 September 2009 - 02:34 AM

High Brain,

thanks 4 fast response...

But youre answer dosent match to one of my three questionmarks :wacko:

...Rev4ever...


#4 Baloo

Baloo

    Frequent Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands UK

Posted 25 September 2009 - 05:42 AM

Afraid I dont know the answer to any of your questions.

I know Rev spend a long time developing the kites and sort of presume that the way you are suggesting of venting would have been considered.

I do second Bri however, if you want speed, try one of the speed series kites.

I think with the 1.5's Rev are loking for control rather than speed.

#5 Scott_of_melnsct

Scott_of_melnsct

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampton, TN

Posted 25 September 2009 - 05:49 AM

so now it is an flying V, but i think a flying A will be faster??

Posted Image



The question of a "V" versus an "A" assumes that the kite is always traveling the same direction, which it isn't. Additionally, if there was venting on the points of the wing that would effectively remove that portion of the sale making it less responsive to inputs from the bottom (brake) lines. ie: it won't turn or stop well.
Scott A Koenig
Founding member: Tennessee Wind Militia
"We muster to fly at a moment's notice"

#6 Buschmann

Buschmann
  • Forum Member
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Berlin, Germany

Posted 25 September 2009 - 07:07 AM

;) shure...,
<<< sorry i typed... "longTime" .. for kite professionals like you, is longime same kite perhaps only half year :-(
so corect ...i fly rev 15 years now too... and shure, not only my old selfbuild rev :wub: )

i only think, the direction of vent profile can be used to give special flight caracters...

and did u fly backway same speed like frontway? / normaly not...

so that effect we talking is more, bigger in normal flight direction!

that brings a look on the other side,

if the effect is on backfly not so imortend, then it can optimized for frontfly?? :blushing:

// speed, controling..all this will be cangend.. not only speed... //


...a kite simulation tool will be fine... http://en.wikipedia....ane_(simulator)

Edited by Buschmann, 25 September 2009 - 07:19 AM.

...Rev4ever...


#7 jburka

jburka

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 354 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, DC

Posted 25 September 2009 - 07:15 AM

if the effect is on backfly not so imortend, then it can optimized for frontfly?? :blushing:


If flying backwards isn't important, why are you flying a Rev?

#8 Buschmann

Buschmann
  • Forum Member
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Berlin, Germany

Posted 25 September 2009 - 07:47 AM

noooo ... i like all ways to fly :-)


BUT the effect from airstrem passing vent, is bigger if kite is fast.

and backfly is not so fast, so from tecnical side, the effect can be formd to optimized anything....

perhaps A = better controling and faste in normal flight / less controling and not so fast backfly...

perhaps V ... other direction ...

perhaps round O = makes anything...

perhps build venting by using a shotgun, = stable flyght direction sidewards ....

so thats what i asked!

// u know, normaly people cry loud if thy have a hole in her kite... so a vent system can do mouch things..

perhaps the outstreming air can be used for handling ....

perhaps build behind the vent a secondary nylon shurface that form the airstrem output ....

...Rev4ever...


#9 awindofchange

awindofchange

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 872 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted 25 September 2009 - 08:01 AM

I think you are assuming that the wind travels across the face of the vent - which it does not. The majority of the wind travels through the vent and has little or no effect on the way the kite flies at all. What does effect the kites performance is the surface area that is not vented. By having the vent on the outer wing tip, it properly un-loads the sail of the wing allowing the kite to still retain its full control and flight while dumping the excessive pull from the wind. If the vent was to go in the opposite direction the wing would still load up under stronger winds and you would lose some of the precision and control without being able to dump the wind from the sail.

I think you would find that venting in the other direction would not give you any more speed at all other than the kites inability to dump the wind from the sail. In other words, you would only reduce the effect the vent has in the stronger winds which would make the kite fly faster. If this is your goal, just eliminate the vent all together or as everyone else has said, purchase one of the speed series kites. :)

Hope that helps.

#10 G-Force

G-Force
  • Forum Member
  • 12 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:20 AM

have some of my own theories on venting - too long and bullsh**y to go into and entirely without aerodynamics learning. Mostly i find venting of any kind on any kite slows it down.

regarding these different diagonal vents - would be interesting to hear the techs at rev say "we tried that and......"

for speed though i reckon it's a shockwave or supersonic


Richard

#11 Baloo

Baloo

    Frequent Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands UK

Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:20 AM

perhps build venting by using a shotgun, = stable flyght direction sidewards ....

I like this idea, venting with a shotgun, however can I please use your kite as the reciever of the shotgun blast.

Another thought around kite flying and shooting. Would be fun to vent a kite using a high powerd rifle at a decent range.

Sorry, just joshing around.

Seriously, maybe the best way for you to find out is to try it. I do feel as posted above there would be problems if the venting was at the bottom point of the kite. However you could raise it some, or even put 2 A type vents in. One starting neat the middle of the leading edge, and one towards the outside.

Not sure if you have seen the "mega" vent Revs which have ben made by cutting lots of holes on the sail they look like a Tea Bag. So much that there are more holes than sail. Then of course there are the Flick type mega vents with only like a spiders web linking the rods together.

One thing I do seem to remember was that there is mention that the middle of the kite where the Rev logo is forms a lot of drive, not dure if venting that bit would make it slower or faster. Some have even used lighted Cigarrets to make holes. Although a hot soldering iron and a pattern must be much better.

One thing is, I have never wondered this. I have always thought the Rev must do the best for thier family (customers) and that the way the venting is laid out is probably the best way. If I want to go fast, I put up a speed series.

If you try it please be sure to let us know how you get on.

#12 Jeepster

Jeepster

    Curmudgeon

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 934 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, IL

Posted 25 September 2009 - 10:43 AM

You might want to check out this thread.

Cheers,
Tom

#13 Simon

Simon

    Rev Legend

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 856 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampton Court, England

Posted 25 September 2009 - 11:10 AM

High @ all,

my name is buschmann, and i fly now a longtime the same rev.
now i think, perhaps, its time 4 a new one :wacko:

on this way i found youre supercool & rev website and forum B)
and i found full & mid vented revs too... / NICE !

but i have a small question about the vent design.

did anybody testet other vent designs?

so now it is an flying V, but i think a flying A will be faster??

Posted Image


so my old rev is 79"cm by 28" (200cm x 70cm), and i know that one size bigger is mouch more pain in wrists...

is there anywhere an "online rev construction & flight simulation kit"?

Hi Buschmann,

really like your thinking on this!
There have been revs with the Vent in the second row of colours (all the blues). Some people really like the "old" vent pattern. also check around you will find various vents in Europe. Belgium & Netherlands coastal flyers tend to put more holes in there kites due to the stronger winds they get.

In the UK a few years back a guy did some wind tunnel tests with venting and the results were very surprising!!

Also the panel layout has some advantages and disdavantages, some like the extra panels of the B series others like the single smoothness of the printed Rev from the González brothers Icarex one piece skins. So please go for it and keep at least me updated.

The Flying Squad

Posted Image


#14 Buschmann

Buschmann
  • Forum Member
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:near Berlin, Germany

Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:35 AM

B) cool, now we are talking same stuff :wub:

thanks for big response and helpfully links.

but, most wrote same,,, this flys smother AS.. or faster AS... :wacko:

and sorry an `96 horizont vented rev, and a newer vertical vented are not same kites,
so it says nothing about all caraters only from venting direction...
/ and most time diffrent pilots talking about her impressions.

perhaps it will be time for a rev-caracters list?

this means not only "flys from wind 3-5, ..smooth, ..fast.."

i think about a figures list & more too!

so under kite rev training are nice figures, skills...

perhaps it will be cool, if all kinds of rev, and all kinds of venting, can come up into one perfect "ISO" listing?

table headlines:
// modellname / size wide / size high / compleate m˛ / vented m˛ / unvented m˛ / ventdirection / weight / wind2fly (min max opt)/ wrist power by wind (min max opt) / frame / frameweight / frontfly / backfly / sidefly / techniques1 / techniques2 / ... / ... / specilys / forgotten field1...picture.. //

and other direction

rev I frame 1 nonvented ... ... ...
rev I frame 2 nonvented
rev I frame 1 midvented
...

rev II
rev II
..... and so frar..

shure, big list, but if a jury of pilots will make this, so alltime same pilots, same places, same windkind...
THEN it will be a cool helpfuly table ...

so if people having a new vent design, thy send it to jury or project team, thy fly it, and add to list... ? (just one way, idea..)
// build some handgrips with "scales" inside, to meshure the power of all 4 lines permanent... digital scales.. in kombination with wind messure datas..on a laptop... and videostream... put some special video analytics points on all rev corners...//

on the way, i found some nice webtools, colourizer 4 kites, kitegames... but all semi professional...
im wondering a bit, so i know in worldwide rev comunity are a lot of aerospace designers, coder, it profs, art, designers.... tonns of output...

normaly, ALL kinds of sport, from tennis till surfing is on market for good gaming (playstation)
and lot of them have cunstruction and simulation versions too....

so perhaps, a professional rev table can be build the first ground data layer for revolution game... ?

to get a lot of test kites 4 testing...
..needs only the fact, best kites come into the game, and designers face will be add as game pilots 4 gaming... :blink:

...Rev4ever...


#15 JMZ

JMZ

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 58 posts

Posted 26 September 2009 - 04:03 AM

In the UK a few years back a guy did some wind tunnel tests with venting and the results were very surprising!!


Is that information available online? I'm very curious about what he found. Thanks.

Very interesting topic,
John

#16 JAMBO101

JAMBO101
  • Forum Member
  • 6 posts
  • Location:Montreal

Posted 26 September 2009 - 06:08 AM

Is that information available online? I'm very curious about what he found. Thanks.

Very interesting topic,
John


Try playing around with this interactive site
http://www.grc.nasa....e/kiteprog.html

#17 big bri

big bri

    BRIAN...

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,656 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK,UP NORTH

Posted 27 September 2009 - 12:16 AM

Try playing around with this interactive site
http://www.grc.nasa....e/kiteprog.html


Intresting it maybe,but

Im all for leaveing the reconstruction and redesign of the wheel to the experts.I would much rather be flying fella.I have mega vented a rev or two
Genuine Revs .Not homemade quads
My earlier answer to your question.Hinted at trying a speed series or takeing a look.I think you will find that some of the speed series also have Vented versions or can be vented,but still fly faster than ther 1.5 counterparts....speed and no venting,,,speed and venting.Which i thought may help you on your mission question.Point you in a correct direction...speed + venting

Now that NASA,the whole rev flying world,wind Tunnels,posts longer than most servers can handle and whatever next may get involved.

Im off flying.
Before we end up
Giveing Steven Hawkins a ring and needing a R + D Budget bigger than Microsofts. ;) :wacko:

:) BRIAN...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users