Jump to content


Photo

Do you adjust knots on top or brake line?


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

Poll: Adjust line length at handle top or brake (50 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you use knots on top, brake, either

  1. Adjust with top knots (40 votes [80.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.00%

  2. Adjust with brake knots (5 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. Sometimes top, sometimes brake (5 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 stroke survivor

stroke survivor

    Hard Core Kite Flier

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,716 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:clackamas, oregon

Posted 25 June 2010 - 12:48 PM

I use fairly thick stiff bridle line for my leaders a piece of advice from David Ellison, stiff is good it helps to reduce snagging. I started with 4 equal length loops with 5 or 6 equally spaced knots on the bottom leaders they are considerably shortened. On the top leaders I had two knots one at the very end and one a short distance behind it (about half the distance between the break line knots), 90% of the time I flew on the end knot, I used to do most of the adjustments on the break lines. The purpose of the two close set knots on the top leaders was for fine adjustments, if I increased break by setting one knot further back and found it too much I could bring the top lines back to the second knot, effectively giving the break lines back half the initial adjustment.

Having said all that, I have just bought a new set of handles and I am going to set them up with shorter leaders on the bottom and do all the adjustments on longer top leaders, so that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.


I'm a top leader only guy! Use the factory bottom and made my own top leaders with 5 knots, the middle equals the factory setting, two shorter, two longer, keeps it simple for those of us the don't fly on a regular basis.:blue-grin:

wayne from portland
You have 2 choices - live on or die!! I ain't the dying type!!!  Also known as "portland flyer" on some forums!

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpgLogoupdate.png

 

 

AKA member


#22 Jynx

Jynx

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,025 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:West Allis (Milwaukee) WI ...and... New Smyrna Beach FL winters

Posted 25 June 2010 - 08:32 PM

Seems that every time JB saw my handle settings he would let out the tops, nearly all the way! (Which made it soooo difficult for me to fly). When he walked away I would re-adjust them back and continue flying. If he would later ask, I would say his settings were a big help! (I lied).

Next time he would see my handle settings... there he would go again leaving out those top lines! Pleeeeze leave my settings alone so I can fly this dang thing!

BTW I now fly with the tops near all the way out (depending on conditions) making it an easier, smoother, etc., etc., fly for me... Who knew that JB really knew what he was talking about!?!?

JB ~ It only took a year and a half (or so) for me to finally understand... Hard to teach an old dog new tricks I guess!

Jynx
The Old Dog!

"When the power of love becomes more important than the love of power,

then there will be peace"

Jimi Hendrix

Posted Image


#23 Love2fly

Love2fly

    All Revved up... where do you want to fly?

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,870 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:New Jersey, USA

Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:45 PM

Hi Guys-

Not sure how I missed this thread....Posted Image .... some good reading, here.

I adjust the tops, ususally only one or two knots is ever necessary. Like John M. had mentioned, it is comfortable to have the "balance" when doing clockwork/ bicycle turns. While I can do it with lots of break, it is easier (IMHO) to have the balance where I don't have to compensate for it "falling". This just seems to allow for a bit less inputs/movements. If you're at the top of the ball, it is also easier to hold that position with a tad less break.

.... just my two cents.
Laura
 
*** Any day flying is a good day; have a great one! 
**** REVS: Fly it, you'll like it!
***** L.S.P. ... It's worth the trip!
 
Posted Image

#24 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 27 August 2011 - 03:42 PM

I use 7-inch leaders with 7 knots on top, 2-inch leaders with 2 or 3 knots on the bottom. Most of my adjustments are made on the top because its easier to get to with the kite parked upright. Usually I attach to the bottom knot nearest to the handle on the bottom (I like as much brake as I can get away with), and use the top knots to adjust to wind conditions. I am almost always on the top knots furthest away from the handles.

But, just to rehash what was previously stated, whatever works for you is the way to go.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#25 katrina

katrina

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Portland OR

Posted 28 August 2011 - 01:23 PM

I have 2 knots on the bottom, don't really mess with them. I use top lines to adjust. I suppose if you fly with fairly short top leaders, you could get away with a longer bottom line, and do your adjustments there. (By the way, if you watch good flyers like Ben with short top leaders, you'll notice they hold the handles differently--they are actually not flying with nearly the forward that you'd think.) But most of us start with the top lines in way too much, then learn to gradually let them out. If you fly with a lot more length on top, it's more practical to put the knots there. My bottoms are only just over an inch long.

7346824786_f12fcda7bd_s.jpg7d6a219c-f09c-4ff7-bfe6-def4ee70537f.jpg 7776002900_89d33b664b_s.jpg   9318e0ca-5fb4-4414-ba00-6101d95edf46.jpg   7770032034_ebc85fc33e_s.jpg   

 

 

 


#26 REVflyer

REVflyer

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Germantown Maryland

Posted 29 August 2011 - 03:47 AM

I do lots of 3-D flying, so the top leaders need to be of consistent lengths for muscle memory. I don't like sleeving either, that's just another tangle point. So, if I want to reach way out there and not touch the raw spectra I'll use top leaders as long as the difference between the two attachment points on the handles. Longer throw handles get longer leaders. The tops are 3 or 4 times the overall length of the bottoms. All tuning adjustments are done on the bottoms, but each knot is easily moved to a new location on high test bridle line. I tune the handles to exactly equal alignment (on a stake first), then place the kite's bridle onto the ends of 'em. Proper amount of "DOWN" is determined from inverted. Keep shorting the bottom leaders until it will back-up from an inverted position on the ground. Eventually the different bridle configurations I use are adjusted to match my preference in leader locations, so you can switch from one style to another easily.

#27 SkyPuppet

SkyPuppet

    Reveller

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Las Vegas, NV

Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:17 AM

I use the top knots to adjust my setup.
I find that if I want to make an adjustment after my initial setup, I can land my Rev, and grasp a top leader and top line with one hand to make it go slack so that I can use my other hand to slightly undo my lark's head knot and slide the line up or down a knot on the leaders. I couldn't do this if I was adjusting with the bottom leaders, as the handle would flop over and wind up inverted once I grasped the leader and line.

Once I have my adjustment point, I "tuck" in the end of the leader:
Posted Image

Not sure if it prevents snags or anything but its somewhat neat and tidy ;)

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

 My YouTube Channel - Thanks for watching smile.png


#28 monkey

monkey

    Rev Guru

  • Forum Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 29 August 2011 - 02:35 PM

I can chime in. :D I -only- (well, 95%) of the time move the top knots, and I typically start at far forward and come back a knot or two at the most. I find if I'm back 3 knots, I likely need a lighter kite. My leaders are the "original" length from the first handles we got with the iQuad team set (as are the handles themselves, with their cute little initial dice :D) and the top leader is 8 inches from the buckle to the end. All my handles are now tied identically, and if you compare them with the stock B series handles, they are about an inch or so longer. I'd check, but, I recently changed'em all.

The snag free handles drive me nuts unless I have the rubber on the top and my FAVORITEST set of handles are my carbon wrapped set Ben got me eons ago.
David Hathaway, Revisionist
-~ REVisions
-~ www.simian-studios.ca
-~ www.teamiquad.com
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis!

#29 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 29 August 2011 - 06:44 PM

I use the top knots to adjust my setup.
I find that if I want to make an adjustment after my initial setup, I can land my Rev, and grasp a top leader and top line with one hand to make it go slack so that I can use my other hand to slightly undo my lark's head knot and slide the line up or down a knot on the leaders. I couldn't do this if I was adjusting with the bottom leaders, as the handle would flop over and wind up inverted once I grasped the leader and line.

Once I have my adjustment point, I "tuck" in the end of the leader:
Posted Image

Not sure if it prevents snags or anything but its somewhat neat and tidy ;)


I did this for while also, but once I found I was on the same knot repeatedly, I simply cut off the excess. No more need to tuck! I have two pairs of handles with equal lengths on top and bottom and lots of knots (ooh, that rhymes) for strange home-mades and bridles that aren't quite right yet. This gives me about 12" differential between top and bottom, and whatever strange thing I'm attempting to fly usually can be accommodated.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#30 SkyPuppet

SkyPuppet

    Reveller

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Las Vegas, NV

Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:02 AM

Thanks for the tip ;)

I like to have an extra couple of knots passed what I use up top for one reason - I'm a stickler for rotating my lines. Every couple of weeks I rotate them top to bottom, and when I do so, I need 1-2 extra knots on the top leaders to overcome the stretch I've pulled into the lines that used to be on top.

If I trimmed the extra knots away passed my normal setting (in the pic, the knot that is colored black), I would have deal with using less brake than I like after I rotate my lines, even if only for awhile.

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

 My YouTube Channel - Thanks for watching smile.png


#31 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:39 AM

Thanks for the tip ;)

I like to have an extra couple of knots passed what I use up top for one reason - I'm a stickler for rotating my lines. Every couple of weeks I rotate them top to bottom, and when I do so, I need 1-2 extra knots on the top leaders to overcome the stretch I've pulled into the lines that used to be on top.

If I trimmed the extra knots away passed my normal setting (in the pic, the knot that is colored black), I would have deal with using less brake than I like after I rotate my lines, even if only for awhile.



That's why I have 2 or 3 knots on the bottom. When I rotate my lines, I attach the brake to the knot closest to the handle, then let it out as the uppers stretch.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#32 Jonesey

Jonesey

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,266 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Titchfield, UK

Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:45 AM

I have 3 sets of no snag handles (1 USA and 2 UK versions) so have each one setup on a line set (incl 15" handles on light lines) so have done away with bottom leaders altogether .. bottom lines straight on to handle and have 3 knots in my top leaders .... call me lazy but I never swap lines anymore and don't have any issues (helps that I can't fly for shit I guess!)





#33 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:50 AM

(helps that I can't fly for shit I guess!)





Me too!!! :D
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#34 SkyPuppet

SkyPuppet

    Reveller

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 628 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Las Vegas, NV

Posted 30 August 2011 - 10:53 AM

That's why I have 2 or 3 knots on the bottom. When I rotate my lines, I attach the brake to the knot closest to the handle, then let it out as the uppers stretch.


I have 3 sets of no snag handles (1 USA and 2 UK versions) so have each one setup on a line set (incl 15" handles on light lines) so have done away with bottom leaders altogether ..



When I made my no snags, I cut off all the excess bottom leader after 1 knot. I see what you're doing now makatakam! It doesn't even occur to me to make adjustments at the bottom leaders anymore, only because I don't have that option ;)

I like to keep it simple and make all my adjustments on the top leaders, but I think its cool that there is always more than one way to "skin a cat" with the Rev! :)

Have Rev, Will Travel

 

 My YouTube Channel - Thanks for watching smile.png


#35 Kitelife

Kitelife

    Forum Guru

  • Forum Host
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,934 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, OR USA

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:50 AM

I'm still using roughly 9" top leaders with 3/4" adjustments...

On the bottom, I have 3" pigtails with 1/2" knots for adjusting line equalization (L-R difference) on the bottom lines.

With enough sets of lines, various kites (bridle variances), etc, I really like being able to adjust small imbalances on the fly when I switch.

John Barresi

johnbarresi.com | kitelife.com | learnkites.com | teamiquad.comkitemap.org
youtube.com/kitelife | facebook.com/kitelifemagazine | KiteLife on Google+

 

President - American Kitefliers Association

"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

My full list of kite articles - kitelife.com/author/john-barresi
 

Please reward posts that are helpful, give positive reputation by clicking on "Like This" button on the right side of each post.


#36 makatakam

makatakam

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 336 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Schaumburg, IL, USA (Chicago nw suburb)

Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:23 PM

I'm still using roughly 9" top leaders with 3/4" adjustments...

On the bottom, I have 3" pigtails with 1/2" knots for adjusting line equalization (L-R difference) on the bottom lines.

With enough sets of lines, various kites (bridle variances), etc, I really like being able to adjust small imbalances on the fly when I switch.



I've adjusting line imbalances by tying a knot in the sleeving. If it stretches again I tie another knot, and the knots are a semi-permanent indicator of the adjustment. The third time I'll untie everything and look for the cause of the imbalance. Spectra is pretty slippery stuff, and if you fly strong winds a lot, it may be slowing creeping through the sleeving, even with multiple knots. I find that I have less problems with imbalance (except stretching) in the line sets from which I've removed the sleeving. I use small blk, wht, red & grn beads (a little bigger than a pinhead), two at each end, to indicate which line is go/stop/left/right. Green is go, red is stop, black is left, white is right. So, as an example, my upper left line has one green bead and one black bead at each end. Lately, though, I've been getting lazy and only use two colors to differentiate only between upper and lower.
Mark

Posted Image

"...it's a fair wind blowin' warm, out of the south over my shoulder, guess I'll set a course and go."
CSN&Y

#37 MercFlyer

MercFlyer

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 75 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yachats, Left Coast

Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:58 PM

My top leaders are a 12" with 1/2" knots and my bottoms are 4' with 1/2 "spacing also, I usually have my bottoms on the last knot out and the tops move back and forth from 9 or 10 inches to the very end depending on how I feel. Sometimes for fun in high wind I put the bottoms back as far as I can with the tops all the way out. I finally put my lines on the stake and equalized them and the top lines are about 3" longer than the bottoms.

#38 RevWizard

RevWizard

    Rev Guru and Historian

  • Forum Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Europe & North America

Posted 30 August 2011 - 03:31 PM

My handles date from 1993(maybe the first with pigtails).
Both top and bottom leaders are 5.5 inches long and have four knots spaced about an inch apart.
I adjust both top and bottom leaders depending on which REV I fly and how I want to fly.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#39 Reef Runner

Reef Runner

    Regular Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 372 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

I'm a top pigtail adjuster.............only got two knots on the bottom, and don't use the outer. Works for me Posted Image


Sent from my regular old laptop, with real keys:

 

nick, from North Carolina
a.k.a. "Reef Runner"
Kitelife Subscriber #590

 

 

It's important to have as much fun as possible while we're here.
It balances out the times, when the minefield of life explodes.

J Buffett - "A Pirate Looks at Fifty"


#40 beach

beach

    Rev Staff

  • Forum Host
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,855 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:El Cajon Ca.

Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:07 AM

I have long leaders both top and bottom and do use them both and it does drive
JB and the team crazy but thats just me.....BenPosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users