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#141 tonet

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 12:52 PM

Que suerte teneis los que podeis saborearla y provarla , me muero de envidia de no porder tenerla en mis manos tan solo una hora , buaaaaaa¡¡¡ Pero me conformare con que vosotros disfruteis con ella y hagais el test necesario para cuando venga a España , saludos amigos , disfrutar de ella.

#142 REVflyer

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:04 AM

I flew the Zen for a while in Dieppe, comparing it to my own highly modified B-Series SUL with a race frame. I found the kites very comparable in flight, the Zen felt heavy on the handles, but not falling out of the sky heavy. More of a direct response to the slightest input, without being twitchy!

As Ben stated, I'm both a good client and tough consumer's critic. The point of the kite is it's beauty. It is a specialty kite direct from the factory for the most demanding of all conditions. No wind outside or puffs of swirling air. I'd confidently fly it inside a baseball stadium, but you could too even if you think it's beyond your conditions skill set!

I like a floaty kite and almost always fly with very long throw handles,.... I like twitchy and responsive. (Ben calls me a "flailer"!) The Zen allows that slow graceful precision everyone expects from a Revolution pilot. It just stays stapled into the sky, in any position, no fancy footwork, no customizations, even limited experience didn't seem to phase it out of contention. That's why I told Barbara and Ben to just name their own price and make the deal. I could easily see adding one of these wings to my own go-to bag. (#55-?)

I'd saw no reason I shouldn't have been leaving with it, prototype?, more festivals?, not ready? etc! Heck, I'm from the land of no wind and the factory has finally, FINALLY addressed our conditions. No special orders or long practice sessions to acquire a skill set, nothing extra needed at all. Just drop your loops onto the bridle and look like a magician in conditions that others can't respond in. Sure it's designed for team flying in no wind. How many times you get to do that in your own front yard?

You will certainly be reading more endorsements in the near future. My order is in. I'll take the first one they are willing to send me!

#143 JD

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 08:09 AM

Let the reviews commence! haha.

Yes precision is the name of the game with this kite. It locks into it's line and stays there. Corners are sharp and precise, and that's in forward and reverse ladies and gentlemen. I flew these at maybe three festivals in a row with the team and upon picking up a 1.5pro again I thought to myself 'man this thing is all over the place!' haha I've really grown fond of it on 90' lines where it takes up the whole sky and is so smooth. Acceleration, braking, cornering, nothing is jumpy, it all just feels....smooth


UGH! and I have to wait another whole day till I get to WSIKF haha ;)

#144 david ellison

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:17 PM

Thanks Revflyer and JD - good to hear your positive feedback

#145 Baloo

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:18 PM

Just makes me hope they fly across the pond real soon.

#146 Aerochic

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:50 PM

Okayyy, a review like ~that~ coming from RevFlyer has me excited beyond words!!! I want one nowwwwww!

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#147 Watty

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 08:03 PM

Alright!!! I had a great bit of time with the zen, and I gave it a run for it's money. Started out on some 85' lines, and it flies very nice. Sail loads up great and has all the power you would want in the light wind. The kite does fly slower simply because of the larger sail, but despite the size, it is still very capable of some fast clockwork and quick snappy movements.

I then put it on my 30' line set :devil: . I started to axel it like CRAZY! It does great smooth axels going from left, then right, and back and forth. It did great!! Then came the toss-and-catch. I love catching this kite. It has a very strong feel to it when you catch it. Then throwing back out, it floats all the way out quite nicely. I am sold :D

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#148 Jeff

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 08:21 PM

/fingers in ears

La la la la la... I'm not listening....
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#149 Sailor99

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 09:49 PM

I was just looking at some of the comments from people who have flown this kite and it appears that comparisons are generally being drawn against 1.5s, mainly pros. However many of the observations are what I would say about a well set up I with race rods in - precise corners, stuck in the window in light air, slower,etc. It almost seems unfair to compare it to a 1.5 as that is a totally different beast. It's almost like saying a 1.5 pro is much more precise and powerful than a II but a bit slower. Well of course it is - the real comparitor for a pro is a B series.

Any chance of some comparisons against a decent I without Mylar, perhaps a sedwick for instance
Over - Jeremy

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#150 FortFlyer

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 11:10 PM

OK 1 more question for me and this I think may be the BIG factor.

What rods are being used in the Zen ?? Are they based on the Silver Bullet design if so I makes sense why this sail fly's so well aside from the upgraded panel design and lower center.

After seeing what the Silver Bullets do for a 1.5 sail I can see the same effects (even better) for the Rev 1 size as the sail is much larger.

Thanks, Jim
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#151 btbt

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 11:38 PM

I was just looking at some of the comments from people who have flown this kite and it appears that comparisons are generally being drawn against 1.5s, mainly pros. However many of the observations are what I would say about a well set up I with race rods in - precise corners, stuck in the window in light air, slower,etc. It almost seems unfair to compare it to a 1.5 as that is a totally different beast. It's almost like saying a 1.5 pro is much more precise and powerful than a II but a bit slower. Well of course it is - the real comparitor for a pro is a B series.

Any chance of some comparisons against a decent I without Mylar, perhaps a sedwick for instance


I absolutely agree.
My all time fave Rev to fly is a Sedgwick 1 with a 2 wrap frame on either 50ft. or 80ft of 50lb. line in a whisper of wind. I`m imagining THIS would be a fair comparison to flying a Zen...and NOT ANY kind of 1.5. A standard 1 would be a good comparative kite as well. I would suggest the no to low wind flying technique(s) used in keeping any 1.5 sul and/or the Zen in the air could be comparable but not the kites themselves. A 1 is a 1, a 1.5 is a 1.5, and a 2 is a 2...simple as that. Similar of course, but way different.
It seems not very many of the folks here have 1`s or 2`s in comparison to folks who have (only) 1.5`s.
bt

#152 Baloo

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 12:36 AM

I would be very interested in a back to back comparison with probably a Sedgwick using Race Rods or 2 Wraps.

#153 REVflyer

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 02:55 AM

I would be very interested in a back to back comparison with probably a Sedgwick using Race Rods or 2 Wraps.


Baloo, I just had a few minutes on the thing using a borrowed line set. However i did tune the handle set-up to my own preference.

The biggest difference side-by-side?, the center of the Zen's sail is much more pronounced.
Whereas the regular Rev 1 has a very small fabric portion between the two "halves" of the sail, the Zen's center portion size is scaled-up from the B-Series.

It's more neutral in flight, compared to a Rev1.
(less of left & right feeling?, . .... more of a transition between the two halves).
My comparison is to how it feels on the ends of the lines and I'd say "it's a heavier B-Series type of feeling". It's the best comparison because it is the Zen's closest cousin. They scaled it up to match a product size that has lost it's luster over the years. Few of us reach for our REv1 first anymore when we arrive at the location.

The Zen's leading edge has a significant curve built into it compared to the Rev1, again it's scaled-up B-series pattern that has been used. There's some mass here for you to exploit/creating lift thru momentum, plus a ton of surface area to make it all seem effortless. It's a team kite designed for a dead calm, but with all the structure and strength you'd expect from a REv 1.
(I'm not a fan of their indoor kite. The down spars are too close together and
the flight controls feel different from the other models, too different for my liking)

I owe a couple of Rev 1's and naturally they are framed as lightly as possible. I'm not sure what frame Ben had in the Zen prototype. I'm sure he said it, but at the festival there's so much background noise I missed it. It did not in any way seem highly flexible, so I'd guess a 3 or 4 wrap.

It felt heavy on the lines, not a sluggish or unresponsive feeling but a direct-connect type of control. Stapled in any hover position, not stationary in the sky thru tiny wiggle adjustments of the handles. A rock solid connection between the kite and flier.

I have spent many long hours customizing my kites for our local conditions through experimentation. I don't need another quad I wouldn't use frequently. I'm not going to carry two bags either! Whatever I buy has got to be so good it can displace one of my other A-Bag favorites. Guess what?,.. I'll find a spot for the Zen, even if I have to bump out a masterpiece!

Team fliers will be needing these kites (or praying for improved weather conditions).

Okay now, somebody please do a promotional video for Ben, comparing the Zen to a Rev1 with all the other variables being identical!

Edited by REVflyer, 19 August 2009 - 02:58 AM.


#154 Felix Mottram

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 03:19 AM

Baloo, I just had a few minutes on the thing using a borrowed line set. However i did tune the handle set-up to my own preference.
<snip>


Thanks for the observations. The Zen has a sail area which is larger than the Rev1. That has to be an advantage. The additional area in the centre would, I assume, help in 'forward/reverse' stability and help precision in cornering by easing the 'turning interval'.

I had suspected that attention would have focused on the bridle and JB has indicated that this was the case.

Having found that a 4 wrap centre combined with 3 wrap 'other' spars was an optimum even in the lightest breezes for the Rev1 I will be interested to learn about the sparing of the Zen. 2 wrap never worked for me and I have not been able to fully assess the Race option yet in the Rev1.

I am not sure why a curved leading edge is perceived as advantageous unless it is facilitating sail billow around the verticals and thereby enhancing directional tracking. For some reason I always felt that a 'tighter' sail was more responsive... <grins>

Looks like it is foggy again overnight at WSIKF...

Felix

#155 Baloo

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:16 AM

Well I couldnt have asked for much more than that cold I.

Thanks so much for the comparison.

I often go for a Rev 1 straight out of the bag. I love the way it flies, esecially on 50 ft lines. Looks like a Zen might be a serious consideration.

My only concern would be how will it deal with the orrid lumpy wind I often fly in.

Felix, I will have a Sedgwick with Race rods with me at both Portsmouth, you are more than welcome to borrow it at Portsmouth and give it back at Bristol. Presuming you will be at both events.

#156 Felix Mottram

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:22 AM

<snip>
Felix, I will have a Sedgwick with Race rods with me at both Portsmouth, you are more than welcome to borrow it at Portsmouth and give it back at Bristol. Presuming you will be at both events.


Thanks for the offer. I already have the Race Rods, just not had the conditions to compare and contrast.

I think that I really need to get hold of a Rev2 with Race Rods as well for a complete comparison... <grins> (quite apart from current versions of the Supersonic and Shockwave)

Felix

#157 Baloo

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:18 AM

Got some Rev2 travel Race Rods if you want to try them Felix.

You REALY do need to try those Rev 1 Racers.

#158 Felix Mottram

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:43 AM

Got some Rev2 travel Race Rods if you want to try them Felix.

You REALY do need to try those Rev 1 Racers.


Looks like another breezy day on Blackheath, Sunday 23rd September 2009 as in the current forcast.

I would be interested to fly the current Rev2 with Race Rods...

Thanks

Felix

(PS to self, really must keep up with all this kit <grins> FJM)

#159 Watty

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 08:46 PM

OK 1 more question for me and this I think may be the BIG factor.

What rods are being used in the Zen ?? Are they based on the Silver Bullet design if so I makes sense why this sail fly's so well aside from the upgraded panel design and lower center.

After seeing what the Silver Bullets do for a 1.5 sail I can see the same effects (even better) for the Rev 1 size as the sail is much larger.

Thanks, Jim


To answer one of your questions, when I've been flying the Zens here, Bazzer has set me up with a race rod frame and 2 wrap center, or 3 wrap frame with 2 wrap center. It seems to fly well this way, but I think it is a tad squishy with the 2 wrap center, and I would like to try it later with full race or full 3 and see how it feel.

On another note, iQuad did 2 routines today flying the Zens. All the other kites were on the ground, and I was behind them with my camera and tripod. B) I'll sort through video when I get home next week. I like making you all wait :devil:

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#160 bartman

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 08:58 PM

... I like making you all wait :devil:


We - the rest of us not a WSIKF, could probably arrange to have you beaten for this. Just sayin'.

Bart




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