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#41 Sailor99

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 05:49 AM

I think that may have been me. I added additional tails on the upper attachment points on my I's as I couldn't get enough brake (Needed another 5cm or so). Also shortened the outer legs on the upper bridle as they were flopping around somewhat and I wanted to induce more LE bend. I think it was skunky who showed me.

Edited by Sailor99, 10 August 2009 - 06:29 AM.

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#42 Felix Mottram

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 05:56 AM

Your to humble Felix,My Appols.
I must be mistaken about the poster of a topic i read .Which discribed an adjustment on the upper, outer,bridle legs adjustment / alteration.Which was specific to the Rev1.

It may have been Skunk or Harrier.I think they shortened the upper,outer legs,but im unsure.So please dont anyone go chopin ya bridle up.

Cant wait to see a vid on the Zen.Better still.Fly one.Own one

BRIAN...


Brian,

I think that I remember the post but I am sure that I did not write it!

I will look forward to flying the ZEN as it appears to be 'just what I always wanted' <grins>

Felix

#43 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 06:28 AM

......... I like the idea of a rev 1 with more meat in the middle area .........

My thoughts exactly, I love my Sedgewick with the pro use, but the 1.5s do seem a bit more forgiving. I don't know if I'm going to be rushing to get on any pre-order lists, but I will certainly be keen to try this one.
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#44 andelscott

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 12:11 AM

My thoughts exactly, I love my Sedgewick with the pro use, but the 1.5s do seem a bit more forgiving. I don't know if I'm going to be rushing to get on any pre-order lists, but I will certainly be keen to try this one.


Now there's a great excuse, errr, I mean business case, for Ben and/or Joe to justify the marketing budget for a visit to Portsmouth or Bristol in a few weeks time. :)
Andy

#45 big bri

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:47 AM

I think that may have been me. I added additional tails on the upper attachment points on my I's as I couldn't get enough brake (Needed another 5cm or so). Also shortened the outer legs on the upper bridle as they were flopping around somewhat and I wanted to induce more LE bend. I think it was skunky who showed me.

Guilty :) ,i think it coulda been you pal.The flopping bridle was the issue as i remember.Shortening was the most likely solution.Cant remember if it works though as i never did try it or remember anyone saying it was a Eureka Moment.
Have a goodn.
BRIAN...

#46 Kitelife

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:14 AM

For the record, market name is "Zen", or "B-Series Zen"... Not all caps "ZEN". ;)

It is a pure collaborative between Bazzer and myself, with flight testing by iQuad.

Also, to be clear, the Zen has it's own bridle, different specs than the Rev 1.

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#47 Kitelife

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 07:32 AM

A little Zen action, from TV in Bogota (Colombia) this past weekend...



Some of the most difficult flying conditions we've ever had... The Zens performed wonderfully, probably saved our tails. ;)

John Barresi

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#48 airin

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:02 AM

A little Zen action, from TV in Bogota (Colombia) this past weekend...

http://www.citytv.co...onal-de-cometas

Some of the most difficult flying conditions we've ever had... The Zens performed wonderfully, probably saved our tails. ;)


Looking good John, thanks for posting that link!

Now here's my questions, forgive me for a newbie's bluntness and unbridled enthusiasm:

Is the Zen a good option for a relatively new 1.5 Rev flyer?

What lines is it best flown with, i.e length and weight?

When will it be available to buy?

What will the kite cost?

thanks for your time,
Erin
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#49 Kitelife

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:22 AM

The Zen is basically a pilot's 2nd or 3rd kite option, after the 1.5 series, imho.

Think of it like a 1.5 SUL, pilots should have a little experience (intermediate), but they don't need to be a Pro to appreciate the Zen. ;)

Release date and pricing has not been finalized yet.

We're looking at a possible January release (KTAI), with demos available for testing at WSIKF.

John Barresi

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#50 Kitelife

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:22 AM

Another video...


John Barresi

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#51 bartman

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:23 AM

A little Zen action, from TV in Bogota (Colombia) this past weekend...

http://www.citytv.co...onal-de-cometas

Some of the most difficult flying conditions we've ever had... The Zens performed wonderfully, probably saved our tails. ;)


Thanks for the video.

I was under the impression, partially based on the name "Zen" that this wasn't a "trick" kite, but something slower moving, more relaxed style. Maybe by trick it means you won't be doing some of the stuff that regular "B" series can do??

I am certainly curious as well to the ideal line lengths, weight, low end wind speed, price, etc..

Lately we have had zero wind in the evenings and with working during the day that has meant no flying again. I don't even think Zen can manage it without me running around with it!

So my interest lies in what I can do with it in very low winds that does not involve a lot of moving around as I do with my std B right now if I want to attempt anything is lower winds.

And, if anyone thinks I'm buying a third Rev this year then....

Bart

#52 airin

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:35 AM

The Zen is basically a pilot's 2nd or 3rd kite option, after the 1.5 series, imho.

Think of it like a 1.5 SUL, pilots should have a little experience (intermediate), but they don't need to be a Pro to appreciate the Zen. ;)

Release date and pricing has not been finalized yet.

We're looking at a possible January release (KTAI), with demos available for testing at WSIKF.



John, thanks for your helpful reply.

January release....well, maybe with the right winds I'll be enough of a pilot for the Zen by then.

Given our light winds here of late, I could really see having a Zen as a back up to the 1.5, as you have suggested.

cheers,
Erin
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#53 Dean750

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:39 AM

I would think the Zen, like the 1.5's are for anyone. Especially if you want to fly in light wind.
IMO, one of the biggest problems for those without alot of experience flying in light wind with the 1.5's is that it's difficult to keep the sail "loaded" while flying. For me, if I can't feel the kite it's extremely difficult to fly.
The Zen will give you the physical feel for the kite in light wind. More sail area. ;)
The Zen in my opinion, is a bigger slightly slower 1.5 with tons of feeling in an area that the 1.5's start to loose that feeling.
I know the one time I got to fly the Zen I was in shock. I loved the way my Rev 1 flew at the bottom of it's wind range. But is wasn't as good as my B and B Pro. When the Zen took off, I was just amazed. It was a Rev 1 sized kite that flew like a 1.5 in a good wind.

Basically, if your already flying the 1.5 size kites, or a Rev 1, then this kite will suprise you. ;)

Dean :blushing:

#54 airin

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:42 AM

I would think the Zen, like the 1.5's are for anyone. Especially if you want to fly in light wind.
IMO, one of the biggest problems for those without alot of experience flying in light wind with the 1.5's is that it's difficult to keep the sail "loaded" while flying. For me, if I can't feel the kite it's extremely difficult to fly.
The Zen will give you the physical feel for the kite in light wind. More sail area. ;)
The Zen in my opinion, is a bigger slightly slower 1.5 with tons of feeling in an area that the 1.5's start to loose that feeling.
I know the one time I got to fly the Zen I was in shock. I loved the way my Rev 1 flew at the bottom of it's wind range. But is wasn't as good as my B and B Pro. When the Zen took off, I was just amazed. It was a Rev 1 sized kite that flew like a 1.5 in a good wind.

Basically, if your already flying the 1.5 size kites, or a Rev 1, then this kite will suprise you. ;)

Dean :blushing:



Singing to the choir, singing to the choir...... :P
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#55 Dean750

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:47 AM

Lately we have had zero wind in the evenings and with working during the day that has meant no flying again. I don't even think Zen can manage it without me running around with it!

So my interest lies in what I can do with it in very low winds that does not involve a lot of moving around as I do with my std B right now if I want to attempt anything is lower winds.

And, if anyone thinks I'm buying a third Rev this year then....

Bart


This might just be the 3rd Rev you'll end up buying this year :lol: I personally want to see what it'll do indoors.
30 foot lines, I'll bet you could fly standing still. :) I'll bet with the amount of back and forth movement you'd experience on a Team Line, you could fly on your 120's in as little as half mile an hour. Ok, maybe I should be safe and say 1 mile per hour. ;)

Dean

#56 Bazzer

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 09:07 AM

OK a lot of guessing going on here, let me answer as many questions as I can.

First of all a couple of flying scenarios:

#1
Your team is at a festival which you about to open.
It’s the 9 - 10am.slot. The wind is very light. The best you can do is pump the sail to the top of the window, gain and slide.
You launch and within one minute only the most experienced fliers are still sliding and gaining, the rest are on the ground.
Not a good feeling.

#2
The wind has been low all day. Everyone is frustrated apart from the very best low wind fliers. Even they are bored with sliding and gaining.
Kites have fallen out of the sky. Fliers are despondent. No mega team fun happened today apart from making nice displays of Revs on the ground.
Welcome to summer.

You look around…
Over in the corner of the field there is this kite that has been flying all day. The flier has good low wind technique, but does not seem to be losing so much ground. The flier is doing all of the normal moves.
Let’s take a walk over there and see what’s on the end of the lines.

It's the same size as a REV 1, except this is a ‘Neos Omega’ on steroids.
It looks familiar, just like your B Series, only expanded up to a Rev 1.
You ask if you can fly the kite.
You get ready to step back and pull.
The sail fills deep and leaps into the air.
"WOW"
"OH MY GOD!" seem to be the most used phrases from everyone who tries the kite.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls………………….the ‘ZEN’!

Ok enough story time, here are the twig & berries, so to speak;

What we have here is a REV 1 size frame set with a B series layout...(that sounds so easy...just make it bigger...if only if it were that simple!)
The frame we are currently testing is a hybrid. 2 wrap center, three wrap or even race everything else.
The kite does fly and look familiar to 1.5, only bigger.
You fly it on regular handles.
Feels very solid in your hands and loads up in low winds.
Gains ground easily. Sooo much less leg work.
Bicycle rotations have slightly more movement when executing due to the bigger sail moving from one hover position to the next.
Axles......oh boy! oh boy! It’s like having an auto ‘complete’ button. Slow and Majestic.
The speed? It is faster than you would think. Not ‘1.5’ fast, but surprising agile for such a large sail.
Tip pivots and rotations are just glorious. There is nothing like watching a big sail arc around a point in space in low wind.
‘B PRO’ leading edge and trailing edge finish work.

Bottom line:
When you are bored or frustrated in low winds, this will make your day better.
Nothing replaces experience and technique. So please remember that.
Wind range? Up to 8 /10MPH.. I won't give a low figure because that still depends on the flier’s capabilities.
Lets just say...lower than what you have flown in before and in a lot more comfort.
For Teams a must. All teams are only as good as the lowest denominator. This kite has just raised the bar in low winds for those fliers.
Weight...no idea! It works.

We have designed this kite is for a couple of reasons.
Low wind flying is difficult enough. This makes it easier, simple as that!
Some of us are not gazelles on the sand and cannot gain ground as fast.

Teams need to be able to fly in anything.
We get invites all over the place, organizations and cities have paid for the show.
We must make the show.
To all of you team fliers out there this is a must.
It’s all about the feel in your hands, which gives you confidence to put on a great show.

Although a release date has been hinted as being the end of the month, please realize this is prototype ‘Version 12.5’ as of this moment. More likely release date will be somewhere between now and January.
Yes, we in iQuad have a set. I wanted the sails to be used in anger (or should I say ‘joy’) to solve any bridle issues and see if we have breakage problems.
Team flying does seem to be the best and hardest treatment to test something new.
So far it’s looking very good, however that is with iQuad flying them (not to sound pretentious, but you know what I mean…).
So, PLEASE, all of you who are attending WSIKF, enjoy your first flight of the ‘ZEN Version 12.5’ and let us know what you think as we cannot go forward without your valued input.
I think you are going to like it. This one feels really good.
Bazzer

p.s. As for colours, anything goes…just like the ‘B PRO’. There will be standard issues (i.e. ‘fades’), however if vented panels are of different colours there will be a small extra charge (those panels really waste fabric and take extra construction time during production).
Myself, John, Stevie and JD have flown the ‘ZEN’ now at a couple of events, but the guys can tell you what they think in their own words.

Edited by Bazzer, 11 August 2009 - 09:20 AM.

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#57 mdilucca

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 09:55 AM

OK Bazz, you convinced me without even try it yet :wub: :wub:

Team Island Quad will be ordering a set ASAP. I can't wait to give it a try at WSIKF :devil:

Cheers and see you soon bro :)
Mario

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#58 Felix Mottram

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 10:29 AM

I would think the Zen, like the 1.5's are for anyone. Especially if you want to fly in light wind.
IMO, one of the biggest problems for those without alot of experience flying in light wind with the 1.5's is that it's difficult to keep the sail "loaded" while flying. For me, if I can't feel the kite it's extremely difficult to fly.
The Zen will give you the physical feel for the kite in light wind. More sail area.
The Zen in my opinion, is a bigger slightly slower 1.5 with tons of feeling in an area that the 1.5's start to loose that feeling.
I know the one time I got to fly the Zen I was in shock. I loved the way my Rev 1 flew at the bottom of it's wind range. But is wasn't as good as my B and B Pro. When the Zen took off, I was just amazed. It was a Rev 1 sized kite that flew like a 1.5 in a good wind.

Basically, if your already flying the 1.5 size kites, or a Rev 1, then this kite will suprise you.

Dean


Hi Dean,

One point I would mention is that 'lighter' handles help in 'feeling' the kite. Also, a finger tip hold on the handles, dare I suggest, in palm down mode helps as well.

That being said, I was already basically convinced that an appropriately spared '1.5' could pretty much match the low wind capabilities of a '1' so this development suits me fine. Not only that but we have a new JMH graphic in the pipeline for a vented 1.5 which would then scale up to the ZEN. <grins> All bases covered...

Felix

#59 Kitelife

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 11:10 AM

Baz hit it all right on the head, spot on.

With love and respect to Baz, I think he's the leading example of what this kite is capable of... Indeed, we went to Bogota with three gazelles (Steve, JD, myself) and a possum to fly in some of the most challenging winds we've ever seen (both on and off the team)... With Baz's more square frame and short/average leg length, he managed to pull off some maneuvers in those conditions that he likely wouldn't have been able to otherwise, simply due to the lack of spring and lunge that normally comes with having a lot of arm or leg length in your favor.

How about that team 360, eh Baz?

Flying on concrete tiles, 150'x150' arena, on 60' lines, switching wind directions at 0-10mph, all the while surrounded by 20,000 screaming spectators (got the numbers from our Colombian friends)... HOLY CRAP.

You're my freakin' hero. :D

==

Re the question about tricks and the Zen, it's a big-ass sail, no matter how you look at it... Flic flacs and the Falling Leaf aren't going to be this kite's forte, but as Baz mentioned, the Zen pops off some of the easiest and most graceful axels you'll ever see on a Rev, pure and simple. B)

We'll be testing the full array of sparring variations at WSIKF next week, so I'll ask everyone to sit tight on frame recommendations/specs until after the event.

==

Also, personally, when I get on my Zen, I feel like I'm settling into a real comfort zone, even in those most difficult conditions... The kite just works for me, gives me what I want, when I want it... The 1.5's are awesome too, quicker, trickier, etc... But the Zen is my go to kite at this point when wind allows, reliable and full bodied.

Anything over 8mph, I look to the regular B-Pro with 3 wraps, a regular B-Pro mid-vent with Race, etc... Basically, from the mid to high range, there's still no finer Rev than a regular B-Pro... In the bottom range, I'm ready to take my Zen and elope. :wub:

John Barresi

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#60 Bazzer

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 11:27 AM

HA ha ha no complaints from here. Man it was tough. also the altitude of 8400ft didn't help. You could feel wind but it had no real pressure to it. Mighty strange. Between this event and Brookings. Probably the worst wind conditions that we get to see all year. Would not of had a good time with a 1.5.
Defiantly built for comfort not speed. Viva Possums!
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