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Differences in Lines


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#1 Brian B

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:16 AM

Okay, so I have a topic that I'm sure has been beaten to death but I can't find anything substantial to go on. The question:

What is the difference between lines from Different Manufacturers???

I'm not talking about the difference in lengths or strengths. I'm talking about the quatifiable differences in the manufacturing and finished product. The hard part is looking at this from a non-biased view. I know that most people have their preference but is one product worth the extra money versus the other?

A little bit about me and why I'm asking:

I started flying dual lines last September ('08). For those lines, I just use the line that the kites came with. For example, my Pism Kites came with Spectra Lines so that's what I stick with. For my birthday, in July, I recieved my first REV, a beautiful B-Series from my girlfriend. She purchased it from a very reputable dealer online and ordered a set of the suggested lines for it (90#-75ft). (BTW Kent - Thanks for delivering such a great kite with a great price for us! And the keychain was a nice added touch!) The lines that we recieved were the Shanti Warp Speed. Since I'm still unemployed, I've got plenty of time to fly and have probably put close to 15 hours on my new Rev. But there's a problem, one of my lines is already starting to show some wear. It looks like I have a piece of cotton wrapped around a 3 inch section almost as if the line has started to unravel. The other three lines are fine except for a little bit of dirt on them. So I'm already looking to possibly replace them and add two other sets of different lengths (120ft for team and 35ft to use right outside of my apartment). I figure the best way to do this would be to buy bulk amd make my own sets. There in lies the problem and questions. Which Line do I use??

Now if I ask any of the guys that I fly with around here, they would, and have, told me to use Laser Pro Gold. Most die-hard Rev Flyers are severely biased towards LPG and that's fine... but why? What's so great about it that it costs more then most other manufacturer's line. How does it compare to Shanti Warp Speed or Berry Blue es55 or Spectra 2000? As I understand it, Laser Pro is not even making Laser Pro Gold Lines any more but somehow Prism has Laser Pro making the Modulus lines which, based on a review I saw in another forum, are the same thing as LPG with the only difference being that they are dyed red and blue.

From a Newbie's perspective... my head is hurting just thinking about all of the different types of line out there!!! :kid_cussing: :wacko:
Can someone please help me out on this one? I personally would love to get in touch with the different companies and do a complete review of lines to publish the information somewhere! Until then, I need to gather as much info as I can and go from there. And let's not forget that cost is one of the factors that I'm weighing here. The money tree has been pretty bare lately!!!

And Ben - if you're reading this - I just wanted to say "Thanks" ;) for teaching me how to fly at Wildwood and getting me addicted to Revs. Now, besides the enablers in W.O.W. (Wings Over Washington), I'm looking for a support group for Addicts of Revs or Revs Anonomous!!! But you're still top notch in my book! I'd fly with you any day!!! But would you be willing to fly with me?? :devil: That's a question for another day!
Brian B
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#2 oparadis

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:34 AM

Since I am on line and doin nothing I'll give a little.
besides you getting what you pay for. The LPG is slick, less friction is important when rapping 4 lines or more. In the past I new guys that would use silicone on the lines just to max out the slippery side. Not recommended for long term use no doubt.
I am not going to dis other lines. And before all the rev craze dualiners have been big lazer pro users. And I am talking about competitive flying, so its tried and true.
Hope that helps.
Peace
Kurtis Jones
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#3 RevWizard

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:55 AM

Start out by looking at this in Wiki: http://en.wikipedia....Spectra_(fiber)
It will explain the Spectra and Dynema fibers.

Spectra and Dynema are the fiber material with which the sport kite lines are made of by companies such as Laser Pro, Shanti, Spider, Blue line, Climax and etc.

In my opinion the top sport kite lines today are made by Shanti and LaserPro. These lines are quite different from each other. I found that Shanti is a softer line where Laser Pro is a stiffer line. They really do NOT mix well in team flying because the LaserPro will create a line lock for the Shanti lines. Thus Shanti should be flown only with Shanti. And LaserPro only with LaserPro. Some other lines might be able to mix in well, but I am not familiar with which ones they are.

Stay away from no name Spectra or Dynema fiber lines. You would most likely be wasting your money. Unless you are really bad off, don't use fishing line made with Spectra or Dynema fibers. The weave of fishing line is generally very loose thus making the line float well, however ever twisting the lines in kite flying results in poorer control. The weave for kite lines is very tight which is best for twists in lines.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#4 kairusan

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:17 PM

On my Revs, I've used both Shanti Warp Speed and Laser Pro Gold. I tend to personally prefer the Shanti and use that most often, but as many flyers will tell you, both Shanti and LPG are very good lines and you'll be fine with either. That said, there are some things one does better than the other.

LPG:
- Much lower cross-section than Shanti for a given line weight
- Very stiff braiding tends to pick up far less debris than Shanti

Shanti:
- Slipperier than LPG by a factor of about 1.5
- When the lines start to bind up, they don't make that horrid screeching noise that LPG does
- Ships in 1000 foot spools, sufficient to make 2 120 foot sets from a single spool (LPG, frustratingly, comes in 900 foot bulk spools)

Both lines have very, very low stretch and give similar responsiveness. As far as your fuzziness problem goes, I've not experienced that with Shanti, although I do have a 200lb set that I use for a TOTL Spinoff that did get a tad fuzzy after I severely abused it by flying in a field full of knee-high weeds. However, after washing all the stickers out of the lines and rubbing on a little silicone lubricant (I use the stuff called Sewer's Aid), the lines looked much better.
kairusan

#5 awindofchange

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:09 PM

The biggest difference between different manufacturers of spectra line is the actual weave that makes up the line. This weaving process is usually very highly guarded by the different manufacturers and every manufacturer will have their own special formula weave that they use. The weaving of the lines can produce many different types of line and flying characteristics. Some of the basic differences is hollow core and solid core weaves, square or round (or even oval) type of weaves will also make a line different from the others. Another big difference between LPG and Shanti is that LPG uses an additional wax type coating on their lines that is designed to help lock in the braid so that it doesn't have near as much "creep". Shanti uses a tighter weave/braid instead of additional wax and interlocks the weave to help reduce the amount of "creep". Creep can be minimized in both LPG and Shanti with proper pre-stretching the lines to lock in the braid.

The Prism Modulus line is a specially designed line from Laser Pro (Now owned entirely by Shimono). This line uses a special weave technique and incorporates a specially designed coating (wax or other poly type substance??) that is baked into (applied on/in??) the spectra lines while the lines are stretched. This process is said to give the most direct feel of the kite as the lines have virtually zero stretch and/or creep at all. The Modulus lines are still 100% spectra fibers, just built in a different way than normal lines.

Personally, I like the Shanti lines better as I have found that the wax coatings used in the LPG lines tends to pick up dirt and other easier (out here in the desert anyways) and I feel that Shanti maintains its slickness longer / better.

With both LPG and Shanti, you are getting into a similar debate as the Chevy Camero vs. Ford Mustang owners. Each seem to have their preference on which one is better. I feel it really comes down to personal preference as to which one you like best.

On a side note:
Your Shanti lines should last you many years of trouble free use. It would be very rare that you could wear out a set of Shanti lines in just a month or so unless the lines were subject to unusual wear and tear such as rough terrain, snags, fences, trees, high bushes and shrubs etc... If in fact your lines are defective (rare but could happen), send them back to me and we will take care of it for you. Daniel Prentice, Owner of Shanti and the original inventor of Spectra Kite Line is a very stand up guy in the industry (over 20 some years now) and stands behind his products. We'll make it right. :)

#6 kitecowboy

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:28 PM

I have the solution, just buy lots of both. anmd a few sets of berry blue as well then after a few months or years you will be just as confused but you'll have your favorite. I fly on berry blue when I'm alone then I use whatever everyone else is using.

hope that helps.

Edited by kitecowboy, 07 August 2009 - 06:28 PM.

Cowboy, rocks in your pockets couldn't hurt.

#7 JeffD

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 11:59 PM

Shanti Speed seems to me to pull through easier so can take more raps.

If I felt they were completly even I'd still go Shanti as I hate the LPG groaning. Never actually counted rapability (if I may speak kite instead of english) and wouldn't be surprised if they were even and the LPG noise just annoyed me into unwrapping quick as possible.

#8 Simon

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:07 AM

On a side note:
Your Shanti lines should last you many years of trouble free use. It would be very rare that you could wear out a set of Shanti lines in just a month or so unless the lines were subject to unusual wear and tear such as rough terrain, snags, fences, trees, high bushes and shrubs etc... If in fact your lines are defective (rare but could happen), send them back to me and we will take care of it for you. Daniel Prentice, Owner of Shanti and the original inventor of Spectra Kite Line is a very stand up guy in the industry (over 20 some years now) and stands behind his products. We'll make it right. :)


Kent spot on, I've been using Shanti for for about 18 years or so, and have sets I've been using for ten years in team flying. I really like Dan and have been happy to support him by Flying on Shanti. This year we got LPG and I've been impressed by the weave of the line, but that creaking noise they make when wrapped :) well... They do seem to lock earlier than Shanti, in multiple Kite wraps this is an issue for us as we use a big Squad of flyers at events.

The Flying Squad

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#9 Kitelife

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 05:23 PM

iQuad uses LPG all the way, sponsorship aside, we prefer them for many of the qualities listed above.

Grade A for Revs, IMHO. ;)

John Barresi

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#10 Brian B

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 07:30 PM

Hey guys, this is great stuff/info! I really appreciate the feedback! I guess it does come down to preference. I guess time will tell for what my preference will be. I guess my only concern is what to fly for team flying. If they do NOT mix well, I guess I'm going to have to use LPG for my 120ft set. I just wish that it was a bit lower of a price.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not "bashing" or discrediting any make of lines that are out there. Shanti's been around for a while and has a great rep, especially with stunt kites. LPG is definitely a fan with Rev flyer (like John and iQuad). I'm just not one to "follow the pack" just because everyone says to. I prefer to question all of my choices.

And a few notes to specific responses:

Cowboy - I wish I could afford to by a set of each and choose for myself! But without a job, money is very tight around my house!

Kent - I appreciate the info and the feedback! As for my lines, it may have been something that I've done and just not realized it. I don't have the greatest fields to fly in and I may have snagged them and not realized it. No worries, they're fine to fly on when I'm by myself. Maybe I'll try "washing them" and using that Lube that was mentioned on it. I apologize for my earlier comments. I'm sure that Mr. Prentice has developed a great product. That's why I am looking at using his lines to continue flying. Unfortunately, most of the guys in my area fly LPG and I may be forced to fly those if they do not mix well. What is your take on this? Team flying lines and mixing brands?

John - Or should I refer to you as Mr B-Series? (Joke) Just out of curiousity, how does it feel to have you're name on one of the most popular kites out there? Anyways, I know that LPG is the chosen line for iQuad and yourself. Unfortunately, the cost of them prohibits some from purchasing them. Therefore, when money is a factor, I try to weigh my options to get the best bang from my buck. Don't get me wrong, you definitely have the experience and I GREATLY value your opinion. Heck, my first Rev is a B-Series because of the design and added benefits so I would be a fool to ignore your advice on a kite that you designed. With that said, I'm going to shut up for now but will ask one last question of you: Would you kick someone off the line of they were flying Shanti and you were flying LPG? What is your experience with mixing different brands of line?

Again, thanks for all of the input guys! I really appreciate it! And I swear, I will NEVER use fishing line to fly my kites!!!
Brian B
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#11 RevWizard

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 07:43 PM

This is the other John, Sometimes referred to as John M. and various other aliases.
When I stated that Laser Pro and Shanti don't mix well, this starts to happen when you get a twist in all line starting around the 270 to 360 degree area.
As long as the lines are just over lapping you won't have a problem at all.

Personally I prefer the Shanti lines of which I have some that are over 13 years old that I use constantly. Despite their age they are still great lines.
I also carry several sets of Laser Pro that I use primarily for pair and team flying when all the others are on Laser Pro.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#12 FortFlyer

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:46 PM

I have many different sets of lines, some I've had for many years with no problems.

If you are by yourself LPG, Shanti or even Berry Blue work fine, I've used Berry Blue for many years as my don't care lines they don't like many twists but they are pretty tough.

All my 200#+ lines are Shanti and have never given me any problems, I use them for my speed series in high winds and have held up very well.

If you know that you will be flying with others on a regular basis in a team environment and they all seem to be using LPG then I would suggest keeping on the same boat aside from that for flying alone any one of the good quality line sets will be more then adequate for what you'll need.
Jim,
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#13 Sailor99

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 12:15 AM

Agree about the LPG being way too sticky. Mostly its gone from my bag although I have a couple of sets left which are heavily treated with mclube. Shanti and climax seem OK. The lines I use most are a tight braid on braid which always seem to surprise people with what a low wind resistance they have, and how solid they are. They are great for individual flying but usually I change back to shanti line for team for fear of damaging other peoples lines.
Over - Jeremy

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#14 Theresa

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 11:43 PM

(LPG, frustratingly, comes in 900 foot bulk spools)


FYI...Laser Pro custom makes the bulk spools for me for at 333 yards :)

http://www.thekitesh...l/prod_258.html

Theresa

#15 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 06:31 AM

I guess I'm going to have to use LPG for my 120ft set. I just wish that it was a bit lower of a price.

Just bite the bullet mate, and BTW Theresa ties a great linese.t I imported four sets into the UK (two sets for me and two for mates) all told with shipping, import duty and taxes they cost me a little over £200, I could have bought a ready to fly 1.5 for less but I consider it money well spent

I know it sound s lot of dosh for string, but look at it this way, you wouldnít buy a Ferarri and run it on remoulds.
Stone in Shoe Bob

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