26 replies to this topic

[Dean750]

The other day must have been a fluke. I'm a prancin big arm pilot.

While I'm still push pullin inputs I gave pushing and pulling the handles along with the inputs and WOW!!! Powering up on any given turn or action is pretty damn cool. I was flying my Vented though, so I hope it carries over to the std.

Thanks again,

Dean

[Felix Mottram]

The other day must have been a fluke. I'm a prancin big arm pilot.

While I'm still push pullin inputs I gave pushing and pulling the handles along with the inputs and WOW!!! Powering up on any given turn or action is pretty damn cool. I was flying my Vented though, so I hope it carries over to the std.

Thanks again,

Dean

Dean,

I am very pleased to be of help! <grins>

I am sure you will carry over to the standard. I started this with the Supersonic and Shockwave, then the Rev1... I only started to fly the 1.5s regularly last year...

Felix

[Dean750]

It seems alot of my dual line experience (15 years old school style) has or is starting to carry over to the Rev control. What I knew about light wind and indoors certainly carried over right off the bat. Just like with dual line I look to progress constantly. Not driven to be the best in the world, but the best I can be in my opinion. So things I type may read cocky, but it's not intended for the most part. I'm HUNGRY to learn. My goal now a days since being introduced to team and having a four man team fly with 3 guys I look up to is to be able to jump onto the line with any of the Teams we look up to and fly like I belong. Know what I mean?

Anyway.....

Off to work. Hope to fly a bit tonight. Thanks again. Always open to learn.

Dean

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

Anyway.....

Off to work. Hope to fly a bit tonight. Thanks again. Always open to learn.

Dean

Dean,

I have referred back to my experience of flying bamboo and tissue fighter kites elsewhere. It is all good....

Felix

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

Anyway.....

Off to work. Hope to fly a bit tonight. Thanks again. Always open to learn.

Dean

It occurred to me that this may be pertinent as well.... (from the blog)

'Light to start but a Three Kite day on Blackheath, Standard, Mid and Vented. I was intent on noting handle position and can confirm 'palm down' with minimal grip. The line pressure holds the handles against the fingers... I am very conscious (edit sp) of enabling a full pull past legs at thigh/knee level and making an effort to avoid 'body blocking' such moves. I have also found that the archery stance, one leg forward, one back, is good for anticipating movement on the ground. Be prepared to be mobile...

I think that the the palm down handle grip is quite interesting when dealing with high/light loading and precise control. Also in respect of long pulls while maintaining forward/reverse control. Palm down is possible, palms facing centre probably not at all!

At a very different level, a pair of needle nose pliers should be in everyones kit for undoing those tension driven adjustment knots in the leaders.

Looking forward to Portsmouth!

Felix'

Edited by Felix Mottram, 02 August 2009 - 09:06 AM.

[Dean750]

Yep, range of motion seems greater. And from what I can feel, the angle put on the brake lines helps to stablize the kite as well. Maybe I'm thinking too much again.

Dean

[Felix Mottram]

Yep, range of motion seems greater. And from what I can feel, the angle put on the brake lines helps to stablize the kite as well. Maybe I'm thinking too much again.

Dean

I hope we are not talking at cross purposes but are you referring to holding the the handles 'palm down'?

Felix

[bartman]

The other day must have been a fluke. I'm a prancin big arm pilot.

While I'm still push pullin inputs I gave pushing and pulling the handles along with the inputs and WOW!!! Powering up on any given turn or action is pretty damn cool. I was flying my Vented though, so I hope it carries over to the std.

Thanks again,

Dean

Elaborate please.

I understand using extra arm movements to achieve more. Tell me more about the turns. I've found push/pull making for some smoother turns. Add thumbs to give it extra, but powering up or making tighter 180s still a bit off.

Like you, I want to absorb all of it.

Bart

[Felix Mottram]

Elaborate please.

I understand using extra arm movements to achieve more. Tell me more about the turns. I've found push/pull making for some smoother turns. Add thumbs to give it extra, but powering up or making tighter 180s still a bit off.

Like you, I want to absorb all of it.

Bart

Bart,

I will respond to your question to Dean...

The turns may be made by accelerating/slowing one side of the sail around the other. The benefit 'may be' that the orientation of the kite (angle of attack) can be advantageous (correct) as a result of the 'long arm' input... You snap the turn and the kite stops precisely with no wobble at all.

Being able to move 'on the ground' may also be beneficial. Maintaining a 'leading edge up' hover requires a specific effective wind speed <grins>

Felix

[Dean750]

I hope we are not talking at cross purposes but are you referring to holding the the handles 'palm down'?

Felix

Were yakin bout the same thing. Palms down when ever the kite is moving in forward or reverse "vertically". When the kite is moving horizontally, (LE left or right) the top wing hand is palms down, the bottom wing hand is vertical or palm in. The angle of the brake line compared to the kite itself seems to stablize the kite. Oversteer or woobles are elimitated after you get the hang of rotating your hands based on the kites orientation. Add in push or pulls with the normal handle inputs and turns and hovers become easier to hold for longer periods of time with less handle inputs. If I get into what I've learned based on hand position compared to flight this will become a blog. Long winded to explain in detail. So here I go.

Dean

[Dean750]

Being able to move 'on the ground' may also be beneficial. Maintaining a 'leading edge up' hover requires a specific effective wind speed <grins>

Felix

Team "forward" settings are a bit different in my very limited experience than individual settings. Way more forward. So palms down with the handles will give the pilots even more ability to add forward when holding the upright hover. The hover should be easier to hold in lighter winds than whats used to. It should also become more stable as smaller inputs are needed and I keep saying more stable. Hope someone can chime in on this.

Dean

[bartman]

I am lost.

I will call these advanced moves and not worry about them!

Bart

[Dean750]

Range of motion and leverage are key in lighter winds. Hand position makes or breaks this. When the LE is facing up or down hands should be palms down. When the LE is facing left or right, the bottom wing hand should move to a 90 degree angle to the palm down top hand. LE facing right, right handle should be strait up and down, facing left the left handle should be strait up and down.
THIS IS ONLY MY EXPERIENCE SPEAKING
These handle positions stablize the kite. Meaning less or no wobble in the kite when inputs are given or hovers are held. This is based on the angle of the brake lines to the kite. Play with these hand positions next time your out and see if you agree.

As for tightening turns and 180's as Felix said and I have learned since he said it, accelerating or slowing one wing around the other adds to the precision of the turns.
On horizontal threads for instance, I've been taught to turn down on the 180 to return. That means the bottom wing initiates the turn. So push the top hand forward as you start the turn with the down hand.
Turning UP on the 180 is just the oppisit. The turn is started with the top hand and the bottom hand is pulled in as it rotates to the up position.
When flying horizontally across the window the top hand is pulled in slightly compared to the bottom wing. When you 180 your hands need to switch places. This is a bicycle thing So, when turning up, give brake to the top wing, thumb to the bottom wing as you pull the bottom hand in. The quicker you pull the bottom wing in the MORE power your giving that wing. No power, the kite will drop slightly in altitude, just enough and you'll pivot around the logo, more than needed and the kite will rise in altitude.
This is something YOU as an idividual need to play with to figure out how much you need to give.

With the std. hand position in the beginning of this post you'll find that since the kite is stable your only really giving inputs to one hand when flying horizontally. Fly the bottom hand, the bottom hand is just there to keep the bottom wing in line with the top. Most noticable in reverse flight. Set your top hand in for your flight speed and hold it. Then adjust ONLY the bottom wing hand to keep it in line with the top wing.

More advanced (or maybe over thought) is flying two handed on all inputs. When you give brake for a turn, give equal amounts of thumb with the other hand. If you push one hand, pull the other equally. This effectivly shortens the inputs needed in half.

Give it a whirl. Tell me if I'm just thinking too much? I really wanna know. But try it before you tell me were to go.

Dean

[Kitelife]

Team "forward" settings are a bit different in my very limited experience than individual settings. Way more forward. So palms down with the handles will give the pilots even more ability to add forward when holding the upright hover. The hover should be easier to hold in lighter winds than whats used to. It should also become more stable as smaller inputs are needed and I keep saying more stable. Hope someone can chime in on this.

Dean

MORE forward for team?

Pfffft, hell no...

I fly tons of brake all the time, but inevitably, I always end up having to prescribe more brake to people who jump in and fly team with us.

You're a total Rev nerd Dean (hate to "brake" it to you), you fly with A LOT of brake, more than I do.

[Quaddict]

MORE forward for team?

Pfffft, hell no...

I fly tons of brake all the time, but inevitably, I always end up having to prescribe more brake to people who jump in and fly team with us.

You're a total Rev nerd Dean (hate to "brake" it to you), you fly with A LOT of brake, more than I do.

Wow!!!
Now that's alot of brake!!!!!

[bartman]

MORE forward for team?

Pfffft, hell no...

I fly tons of brake all the time, but inevitably, I always end up having to prescribe more brake to people who jump in and fly team with us.

You're a total Rev nerd Dean (hate to "brake" it to you), you fly with A LOT of brake, more than I do.

So John,, how much brake do you fly with?

Bart

[Dean750]

MORE forward for team?

Pfffft, hell no...

I fly tons of brake all the time, but inevitably, I always end up having to prescribe more brake to people who jump in and fly team with us.

You're a total Rev nerd Dean (hate to "brake" it to you), you fly with A LOT of brake, more than I do.

Really??? Damn, that palms down tip you gave me got all the thought going.

Dean

[Felix Mottram]

Team "forward" settings are a bit different in my very limited experience than individual settings. Way more forward. So palms down with the handles will give the pilots even more ability to add forward when holding the upright hover. The hover should be easier to hold in lighter winds than whats used to. It should also become more stable as smaller inputs are needed and I keep saying more stable. Hope someone can chime in on this.

Dean

Dean,

Palm down should not imply any greater control, only the range of possible input...

If you cannot hold a 'LE edge up hover' you may need to consider adding a bit more 'forward'. A couple of years ago I finally capitulated in the interest of team work!

Felix

[Dean750]

Dean,

Palm down should not imply any greater control, only the range of possible input...

If you cannot hold a 'LE edge up hover' you may need to consider adding a bit more 'forward'. A couple of years ago I finally capitulated in the interest of team work!

Felix

I really didn't know I was flying with that much brake. JB gave me the palms down tip. It allows me to give more forward input than what I could with my hands at the 45 degree angles. As an individual in light wind I pretty much never hold the upright hover.
With more forward, as in what I thought was team settings holding the upright hover isn't a problem. I own my hovers

Your right, palms down does not give greater control. It only allows at least for me, more range of motion in my wrists. So I can get my thumbs back enough to launch and fly forwards with the brake settings used.

Basically what I've learned through this post is that I need two sets of leaders. Individual light wind/street flying and Team flying leaders. Less time figuring out how much forward I need to keep up with everyone else since I can't move unless the team moves.

I'm hooked on team flying. Can't wait to see what WSIKF is going to be like.

Thank you Felix

Dean

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>

I'm hooked on team flying. Can't wait to see what WSIKF is going to be like.

Thank you Felix

Dean

Dean,

I am looking forward to hearing about WSIKF. If it was not for difficult family circumstances I would be very tempted to get on a plane. I will not be at work that week anyway!

Felix