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Why the screen/mesh by the leading edge?


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#1 AldenMiler

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:59 PM

I tried to fly my 1/5 SLE yesterday afternoon but the breeze was too light, I could fly for a minute and then the wind would die off and the kite would fall from the sky.

So, this gave me time to think instead of fly...

I was wondering what the mesh just behind the leading edge does for the flying characteristics of the kite?

I sort of understand that the vented revs have the mesh to reduce pull in higher winds but I was curious as to what the leading edge mesh does.

-Alden
"Don't go in there!" RC

#2 wufer

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 06:20 AM

Alden.
Im new to revs but from what ive been told it all to do with flying in reverse(points first).
Apparently the mesh lets the air vent from the sail when flying in reverse so as to make it a lot smoother to fly.
But maybe a wolf or a monkey can explain it better.(hint)
Regards.
Derek

#3 monkey

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 08:23 AM

Alden.
Im new to revs but from what ive been told it all to do with flying in reverse(points first).
Apparently the mesh lets the air vent from the sail when flying in reverse so as to make it a lot smoother to fly.
But maybe a wolf or a monkey can explain it better.(hint)
Regards.
Derek



heh, well, ya, thats basically the entire purpose, to spill off the wind nicely as its moving in reverse. Without fail, any custom I have ever flown that did NOT have that mesh, flew a little oddly in reverse.
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#4 Kitelife

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 08:39 AM

Agreed.

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#5 REVflyer

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 10:17 AM

any yet Revolution's speed series and the indoor models are offered without venting, go figure!

We watched in amazement last Saturday as Scottie Weider did his famous inverted up and overs
or walked the entire Air & Space museum with the kite flying backward directly overhead the whole way.

You don't need the venting if the wind conditions are light enough or if the sail is very tight (like in the speed series kites)

The regular revs do back-up less twitchy with the addition of the venting, but it doesn't have to go all the way across the leading edge to be effective for mere mortals either.

#6 AldenMiler

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 12:06 PM

I knew I could get the answer from this group!

Thanks! -Alden
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#7 monkey

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 01:01 PM

any yet Revolution's speed series and the indoor models are offered without venting, go figure!

We watched in amazement last Saturday as Scottie Weider did his famous inverted up and overs
or walked the entire Air & Space museum with the kite flying backward directly overhead the whole way.

You don't need the venting if the wind conditions are light enough or if the sail is very tight (like in the speed series kites)

The regular revs do back-up less twitchy with the addition of the venting, but it doesn't have to go all the way across the leading edge to be effective for mere mortals either.


As well, the Speed Series LE tends to be canted back further and with the dual verticals on each side help as well. Plus, the silly fast acceleration that a Speed Series can pick up would probably blow out the venting in a good strong wind. :D
David Hathaway, Revisionist
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Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis!

#8 bobw

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:40 AM

any yet Revolution's speed series and the indoor models are offered without venting, go figure!

We watched in amazement last Saturday as Scottie Weider did his famous inverted up and overs
or walked the entire Air & Space museum with the kite flying backward directly overhead the whole way.

You don't need the venting if the wind conditions are light enough or if the sail is very tight (like in the speed series kites)

The regular revs do back-up less twitchy with the addition of the venting, but it doesn't have to go all the way across the leading edge to be effective for mere mortals either.


Hi. Just curious where the bang for buck would be for the mesh. In other words, is it the mesh in the center, the sides etc that make the most difference? One of my kites is suffering from repeated mesh failures, so I was curious if there's a way to minimize the mesh (and minimize this weak spot) yet still get good performance.

#9 antman

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 04:12 AM

i agree with paul on this one..i have flown both vent and vent less kites and in the lighter winds the no mesh is way better.. when it blows however it is nice to have the mesh as it is another way to vent the kite if you think about it.. the only thing i hate about the top mesh is that in time it starts to tear across the top if you find a small rip and dont fix it early
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#10 bobw

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:06 PM

i agree with paul on this one..i have flown both vent and vent less kites and in the lighter winds the no mesh is way better.. when it blows however it is nice to have the mesh as it is another way to vent the kite if you think about it.. the only thing i hate about the top mesh is that in time it starts to tear across the top if you find a small rip and dont fix it early


So, since the SUL is designed for 0-8 mph, should it have been made ventless? Seems to me that it would have made this kite even lighter, and more durable.

#11 RevWizard

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:29 PM

So, since the SUL is designed for 0-8 mph, should it have been made ventless? Seems to me that it would have made this kite even lighter, and more durable.

That is why they designed an Indoor NoWind REV.
The SUL whether it be a I, II, or 1.5 is designed to be able to handle a bit of wind and still be able to fly, with a little more physical effort, in very light to no wind. The indoor REV does not fly well at all with a little wind.

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#12 bobw

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 03:51 PM

That is why they designed an Indoor NoWind REV.
The SUL whether it be a I, II, or 1.5 is designed to be able to handle a bit of wind and still be able to fly, with a little more physical effort, in very light to no wind. The indoor REV does not fly well at all with a little wind.


Thanks John. But, the Indoor was also meant to fly in zero wind, and w/o a bridle. Just curious, but I'm wondering if a meshless SUL would be (perhaps a bit narrower in the wind range) but superior (and with a bridle).

#13 RevWizard

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 04:21 PM

Thanks John. But, the Indoor was also meant to fly in zero wind, and w/o a bridle. Just curious, but I'm wondering if a meshless SUL would be (perhaps a bit narrower in the wind range) but superior (and with a bridle).

Not regarding the weight difference, try placing a piece of tape over the LE vent. It would give you a rough idea.
I notice that as the winds pick up the LE vent improves the precision versus the tape over. In particular you will notice this on reverse flight.
You could also take a look at the US patent no. 4892272. There is a good engineering explanation. Patents can be viewed on-line at the US Patent Office web site.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#14 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:02 PM

Here is A LINK to that patent, just in case anyone wanted to look.........
LS Custom Kite Accessories

Maker of the Original Marble Kite Stake
And Revolution Snagless Pro Handles
http://www.Kitestakes.com

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#15 bobw

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:09 PM

Here is A LINK to that patent, just in case anyone wanted to look.........


thanks! I took a look, but its lacking any empirical data for wind ranges etc.

#16 AldenMiler

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 06:45 PM

Dang, it's groundhog day! You guys dug up a two year old post that I did!

-Alden
"Don't go in there!" RC

#17 RevWizard

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 07:13 PM

thanks! I took a look, but its lacking any empirical data for wind ranges etc.

In particular for any SUL as the first, a REV I SUL, was not created until a few years after the patent was applied for.
The patent demonstrates the reasoning for the LE vent, right?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#18 beach

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:49 PM

If it's not broke why fix it, but the leading edge mess is very important my friends..... The big thing is your all forgetting
to add the human factor to your experiments..... If you should get a chance to mount a kite in a wind tunnel and then
run smoke over it you will see what the screen does for sure, but many things come into the picture when you add the
human factor, but when the kite is stationary and the tunnel is blowing 4 mph straight on and then you run it backwards
on the rail with smoke going over the sail you can see the true spectrum of what the mess does.... But what most of
us never take into account is the wind is never blowing at the same height, speed, and direction when we are out flying,
and another twist to the puzzle add air density and my friends now we are talking about more the just a run off for
reverse flight, we are talking about, lift, drag, balance, against push strength resistance..... Thats why I say if it's
not broke don't fix it cause what you end up with is a nightmare, also remember in all this there are tradeoffs and
we at Revolution would like to believe we have given you what works the best and the simplest.... Also I will tell
you there are some things that would be nice, but for an all round off the shelf kite great performing kite that is affordable
by most anyone you can not beat us....... Just my two cents but I believe I'm right....Ben :blue-cool: :blue-cool:

#19 Love2fly

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 09:58 PM

If it's not broke why fix it, but the leading edge mess is very important my friends..... The big thing is your all forgetting
to add the human factor to your experiments..... If you should get a chance to mount a kite in a wind tunnel and then
run smoke over it you will see what the screen does for sure, but many things come into the picture when you add the
human factor, but when the kite is stationary and the tunnel is blowing 4 mph straight on and then you run it backwards
on the rail with smoke going over the sail you can see the true spectrum of what the mess does.... But what most of
us never take into account is the wind is never blowing at the same height, speed, and direction when we are out flying,
and another twist to the puzzle add air density and my friends now we are talking about more the just a run off for
reverse flight, we are talking about, lift, drag, balance, against push strength resistance..... Thats why I say if it's
not broke don't fix it cause what you end up with is a nightmare, also remember in all this there are tradeoffs and
we at Revolution would like to believe we have given you what works the best and the simplest.... Also I will tell
you there are some things that would be nice, but for an all round off the shelf kite great performing kite that is affordable
by most anyone you can not beat us....... Just my two cents but I believe I'm right....Ben :blue-cool: :blue-cool:


Hi Ben-
Very cooooool facts!
I knew it had a direct impact on a lot of the flight characteristics, but this is really great to know a lot more detail about them!
Thanks for the lesson... first major thing learned to start off my second year of flying these babies ;) !!!
Thanks, sweetie... OK, Mel, I said it, again!!! lol
Laura
 
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#20 bobw

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 06:12 AM

Dang, it's groundhog day! You guys dug up a two year old post that I did!

-Alden


LOL. Thanks all for indulging me! Blame it on "search". I've got an EXP that I've flown a heck of a lot in its short life span, and well, its suffering from repeated mesh disease. So, I went looking. And being a geek by nature, I wanna know why. Guess I must have been a horrible 2-year old ("but why").

I don't doubt it smooths it out (and that must have been cool to see airflows etc), but I guess I was just probing a bit at what ant said: i.e. at low air speed, he found kites w/o mesh to just fly better. From that, I assume there's some upper limit, or just outdoors bumpy air that makes mesh better vs non-mesh for an SUL kite. Any case, time for bfast and to get out to Liberty and fly!




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