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Tails on a Rev?


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#1 Kitelife

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 12:59 PM

Tails were mentioned in another thread, and its moved me to ask all of you...

==

1. Where do you like to attach your tails on a Rev, and how many do you use?

2. What type of tail do you use (tube, flat, plastic, ripstop, mylar) and in what width(s)?

3. What model of Rev have you used with tails, and how do you feel it effected the flying characteristics of your kite(s)?

4. Any problems with getting your tail in the lines, and if so, how did you avoid it afterward?

5. What effect did it have on the wind range?

6. Have you flown team with tails, and if so, what new challenges should one expect?

==

Curious to hear your responses. :)

John Barresi

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#2 Kitelife

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:20 PM

1. Where do you like to attach your tails on a Rev, and how many do you use?

I've tried them on the outer wing tips, which give great spirals in the tail from fast spins, but put a little wind drag on the turning controls.

Seemed to me that tails on the bottom tips tended to pull the tips together which exaggerated the leading edge flex to a point where I felt it impeded the kite's abilities.

I like the center best, since the tail drag there effects only the center drive and not the R/L controls which generates in the outer portions of the wings... Also, from a front view (as the pilot sees), the tail originates from where there is the least amount of sail, making it the most visible.

In theory, just on the main points alone, you could easily attach seven tails... Outer tips, top vertical tips, center LE, bottom tips.

Other places could be used of course, but these are seven pre-existing points that can carry the load and provide an easy place for attachment.

2. What type of tail do you use (tube, flat, plastic, ripstop, mylar) and in what width(s)/length(s)?

In my experience, tube tails provide significantly more wind drag compared to the flat tails... I prefer the latter.

The wider (larger) your tail, the more drag... Same goes for length.

I like 1/2" mylar (or ripstop as a second choice), around 50'... Longer tails make cooler spirals. :)

Ripstop tends to fray and eventually snag up on itself much more easily, whereas mylar is a bit more slippery which is good for less wind drag and snag ups on itself.

3. What model of Rev have you used with tails, and how do you feel it effected the flying characteristics of your kite(s)?

I've tried Rev I, 1.5 and II with tails, performance effect outlined in my response to question #1.

4. Any problems with getting your tail in the lines, and if so, how did you avoid it afterward?

Off the center of the kite, I've never experienced this problem, even in light wind.

Off the tips, I've occasionally gotten tails into the lines, but generally only in the lightest of winds.

5. What effect did it have on the wind range?

Depends a lot of type and material.

I'll be interested to hear what others have found with various materials in light conditions.

6. Have you flown team with tails, and if so, what new challenges should one expect?

I've only flown tails during a single demo with the Bay Area Sundowners (team with six 12-packs of Hypers, each kite with a 35' tail.

Because of the tails, spacing becomes much more critical as you have to try and avoid flying into the tails in front of you, and angle your flight path base on predictions of where the tails will be 3 steps ahead... Generally the tempo between turns expands, as pilots wait for the tails to clear their next flight path.

Can't wait to hear what y'all have tried and found! ;)

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#3 Choccy

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:32 PM

6. Have you flown team with tails, and if so, what new challenges should one expect?

As written over here in this thread about tails.

Certainly adds another dimension to the flying challenge! ;)

Used 100 foot flat tails.

Have tried joining 2 x 100 foot tails together to make 200 foot on 1 rev :D

OK more info from our limited time flying with tails:

1. for single tail, attached to the centre of the LE.
For 2 tails on 1 rev they were attached to the end of the leading edges.

2. Flat ripstop tail, not sure of the width but fairly generous more than 10 cm (not got it to hand ATM).

3. Mostly flown with rev 1.5, seen here with a teal standard B-series.

5. Need more wind for team flying with tails.

6. Flying one tail joined to 2 revs was definitely more challenging.

Need better/stronger wind to give this all a go again with all size revs, and attaching the tail to different places.....

P.S. last year we had a go of Jonesey's PowerBlast 2~4 with his different tails..... ;)

Edited by Choccy, 22 May 2009 - 01:31 AM.

1 of the 47.

#4 Kitelife

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:47 PM

Aha, if that thread was any more obvious it would have bit me. :D

Well, I'll stick by my set of questions in search of more comprehensive info on this topic. ;)

Were did you attach your tails Choccy, and how many did you use?

John Barresi

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youtube.com/kitelife | facebook.com/kitelifemagazine | KiteLife on Google+

 

President - American Kitefliers Association

"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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Please reward posts that are helpful, give positive reputation by clicking on "Like This" button on the right side of each post.


#5 RevWizard

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:53 PM

Tails were mentioned in another thread, and its moved me to ask all of you...

==

1. Where do you like to attach your tails on a Rev, and how many do you use?

2. What type of tail do you use (tube, flat, plastic, ripstop, mylar) and in what width(s)?

3. What model of Rev have you used with tails, and how do you feel it effected the flying characteristics of your kite(s)?

4. Any problems with getting your tail in the lines, and if so, how did you avoid it afterward?

5. What effect did it have on the wind range?

6. Have you flown team with tails, and if so, what new challenges should one expect?

==

Curious to hear your responses. :)

I have quite a bit of experience with tails on REVs and other kites in the past.
1. For REVs I find that they are best attached to the inside trailing edge of the sail. I always attach with Velcro, primarily for "Safety Purposes". The Velcro pad is on the kite back and the Velcro hooks are on the tail.
2. I have tried all mentioned and found that "hot cut" ripstop polyester strips or tape to be the most robust and problem free. Ripstop Nylon clings to itself severely. Mylar wears out to quick. tube create too much drag. "Hot cut" ripstop is absolutely important. "Cold cut" ripstop causes too much hanging of the tails on each other.
I used primarily 6 tails at a time with lengths from 10 to 15 meters, depending on which of several sets of tails I grabbed. The tails in each set are the same length. I once tried 30 meter tails before I cut them down to the 15 meter length, it was a disaster. Ask Ray Bethell, he was present and assisting the only time I ever tried it.
3. I have flown the 6 tails on all of the REV series and find they perform best on the REV I.
4. I have never had problems with tails hanging on my lines, but occasionally on other lines. The polyester tails slip right off other kite lines.
5. I have flown 360's with a REV I that had 6x 15 meter tails in competition taking easily first place. I tend to have the feeling that add lift to the REV I in that configuration. Line length was 30 meter(100ft). Location: St. Gallen, Switzerland August 1994.
6. I have flown pairs, with the 6x tails, a number of time in competition. I flew team once with the Flying Squad using a REV II's with tails.

The downfall of polyester tails is that they can't get wet. If they are wet, they are almost like being glued together. Very high humidity like you experience in Malaysia is a problem with multiple polyester tails.
Long tail when stored should be wrapped properly around something like a halo kite string ring. They should never be stuffed in a bag. The latter makes them hang quicker on each other when used the next time.
If you fly trains, only fly them on the last REV. If you have tails on the other REVs in a train, the slightest flying in reverse will cause the tails to tangle in the train lines. Then you are in for a real big mess to straighten out.
The important thing with pair and team flying with tails is to keep the tails away, first from the bridle of a partners kite, secondly the control lines. Spacing is quite important with tails particularly in lower wind conditions.

If you want ripstop polyester tails, hot cut, you will have to create them yourself as I have never heard of a source of ripstop polyester strips. The width you want should be close to 25mm about 1 inch. If they are narrower, they don't flow very well and start to create slight drag. I noted this with some 20mm tails that I made by mistake.

Attached are two REV I photos where you can see the tails attached. In both cases you will see the tails wrapped on each other. With hot cut polyester tails this twist blows out over 99% of the time in straight flight.

Another thing, I found you can teach some one to fly a REV, with tails, quicker then without. This is because the REV reacts much slower and is steadier with tails.

Attached Thumbnails

  • DSC03621.jpg
  • DSC03613.jpg

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#6 Baloo

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 01:57 PM

I could answer all your questions without any problem John, would all be stupid answers though cuz I have never tried flying with tails on a Rev.

(Unless you count the guys kites at Weston as tails the Day they tried to get me to play a simple game of follow the leader)

I can see that they would slow the kite down a lot though.

Be intersting to see what sensible answers you get ;-)

#7 Love2fly

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:38 PM

Hi John-
A little "tail action" is always good? Was that one of the questions?Posted Image

Seriously, I've flown with the ripstop polyester. There's a tiny hole for a clip on the 30' tails that I have. I just take the end cap off and slide it over the LE spar and then put the cap back and voila! It is a bit short. I definitely agree that the spirals look much better on longer lines. On the this length, there's minimal drag (at least I didn't notice much, if any).

Like you mentioned, it's important to stay out of the "wash" of the kite in front of you and their line, when you are team flying. Rich and I were doing great, keeping enough distance, etc. (we both had a tail on) and then, we were possessed ;) into doing our usual spins around each other, where we have to 180 and go back around a couple times to get the wraps out. Well, the tails wrapped sooooooo bad around the lines. It actually bent my kite in such a funny way that one of my Magic Sticks splintered big time!!! All I could hear was this "crunchy sound"!!!!
Live and learn.
Laura
 
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Posted Image

#8 Love2fly

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:45 PM

About a year ago, I came across a video of a guy flying a gorgeous Rev with a tail that was about 100', if I recall correctly, and it had to be a couple feet wide. He attached it to both of the trailing edge end caps. (I was very new to the Rev thing at that point, so I didn't know to look for any "details of flying" at that point). I can't recall if it looked like a dragon or something with eyes, but it was extremely cool to watch. The spirals were amazing.
I've searched many times for the video and have never found it. I would love to try something like that. That would work especially well on a very windy day, I'm guessing!
Laura
 
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**** REVS: Fly it, you'll like it!
***** L.S.P. ... It's worth the trip!
 
Posted Image

#9 Baloo

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Posted 21 May 2009 - 09:55 PM

Hey Laura, I can see that the wide tail would look cool. Well not actualy see, sort of see if you get my drift.

What would look even cooler would be if it started out as wide as the bottom V than tapered into a long point, or even tapered, then split into two tails. Now that would look cool, especially with the right graphics printed on it.

#10 SynTaks

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 02:18 PM

Tails were mentioned in another thread, and its moved me to ask all of you...

==

1. Where do you like to attach your tails on a Rev, and how many do you use?

2. What type of tail do you use (tube, flat, plastic, ripstop, mylar) and in what width(s)?

3. What model of Rev have you used with tails, and how do you feel it effected the flying characteristics of your kite(s)?

4. Any problems with getting your tail in the lines, and if so, how did you avoid it afterward?

5. What effect did it have on the wind range?

6. Have you flown team with tails, and if so, what new challenges should one expect?

==

Curious to hear your responses. :)


Hi Jon--

I very often fly with tails...If there's enough wind, my rev has tails. I always use 2 of them. I've only tried on the bottom tips, though now I'll be trying the wing tips to see if I like the effect better. I started with a couple of the cheapo plastic tube tails sold at many kite shops for $4 or so. Those are 50' give or take the length needed to cut off as they split and shred.

I've used them on every rev I own. Rev 1.5 (standard, vented and SUL), baressi, b-pro, and shockwave. I haven't talked my better 3/4 to try them on her blast 2/4 yet though.

Awhile back I decided to try making my own. I simply bought a few spools of ribbon at JoAnns and made them with that. It takes a lot more wind to use those than it does to use the tubes simply because of the drag. I made some pretty nice shiny Black & Gold (to use with my black and gold baressi) for Superbowl Sunday while the saints won the best football game ever.

As for whether we use them for team flying ... Errr ... what's a team? ;) We're in ALASKA! I can't even get people out flying when it's 30f let alone come out with me when it's MINUS 30f... (I fly in everything but rain... if there's wind, even if it's -35f, I'm flying whether people think I'm insane or not. :P

--TaK


Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#11 SynTaks

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 10:03 PM

Hi Jon--

I very often fly with tails...If there's enough wind, my rev has tails. I always use 2 of them. I've only tried on the bottom tips, though now I'll be trying the wing tips to see if I like the effect better. I started with a couple of the cheapo plastic tube tails sold at many kite shops for $4 or so. Those are 50' give or take the length needed to cut off as they split and shred.

*snip*


Since I was running around uploading pictures, figured I'd add one for this.
Posted Image
Clicky for fullsize
^tube tails that were 50' when we started.

Posted Image
AlasKiters kite club

There's two of us crazies here.... which one is this?
He's into the B series, choreography and coloring.
She's into a bridleless SUL and skiing with a Blast.


#12 Wobbly

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 11:57 AM

Why stop at tail's my mate "George" often comes for a fly


The Haven 230809 003.jpg

#13 Watty

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 06:12 PM

Why stop at tail's my mate "George" often comes for a fly


The Haven 230809 003.jpg


Haha! Put him on the speed series and what a ride he will get Posted Image

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#14 Wobbly

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:38 AM

I don't think he would mind having a go on a speed serie's, quite an experienced kite rider now, went a bit pale first time on my Rev1 thought he was going to be sick but now loves it, need's to have a sit down and a bit of a rest from time to time as apparently hanging onto a Rev is quite tireing

IMG_0555.jpg

#15 Aerochic

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:45 AM

I don't think he would mind having a go on a speed serie's, quite an experienced kite rider now, went a bit pale first time on my Rev1 thought he was going to be sick but now loves it, need's to have a sit down and a bit of a rest from time to time as apparently hanging onto a Rev is quite tireing


Hehehehe! That's Funny! :D

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#16 Wobbly

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 07:01 AM

Here's something else we tried out for a laugh one day, the flower's are plastic garden ornament one's and they spin round as well, look really funky spinning round as the Rev fly's through the air, does need a big kite in this case friend Rob's Sedgewick, and before you ask yes it flew like a pig but it did fly, even inverted hovers were possible !!!

Robs_Bees_005.jpg

#17 RevWizard

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:02 AM

Here is a photo from 1993, almost 17 years ago, of a pink panther.

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  • 199313-20-Edit.jpg

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!





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