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Fishing line experiment


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#1 G-Force

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 06:33 AM

Anyone tried using Powerpro fishing line for flying ?

Am skint and can't afford the rip-off-Britain prices for Spectra flying line. I have a set of Shanti 90# x 120ft. I only use them for team flying and it's gone all "woolly" after only 6 months (pretty hard) use. We've had a couple of occasions when 3 or 4 sets of lines crossed and they seemed to 'lock' together and all kites came tumbling from the sky - I think it may be because of my woolly lines.

Am experimenting with this fishing line because....

i) it's 100% Spectra

ii) it's made by the same folks who make Laser Pro Gold see bottom of page here... http://powerpro.com/..._advantage.html

iii) it's less than 1/3 the cost - got 500 yds 80# yellow for GBP 38.00 delivered from here ...
http://www.fishingta...ellow-c-75.html
500 yds makes 3 x sets of 120 ft lines.

iv) I want to try the 2 rev stuff like Steve De Rooy - v v cool

So far

ROBUSTNESS - appears ok. Flew some 50# stuff in 20mph wind with home made vented rev-like quad.

FLYABILITY - out of the box you can get up to 15 wraps before losing too much control but it squeaks, loudly. - used some 3-in-1 Silicone spray, applied with a rag, this problem solved but will this spray cause others?

DURABILITY - unknown. testing begins now

COMPATIBILITY – unknown – but can understand others not wanting to risk their own expensive lines in team flying if I'm on this stuff

Rich

#2 kiteking

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 07:36 AM

The company that makes PowerPro originally started making kite line then expanded into fishing line

Here is more info

they do mention this:

LaserPro All LaserPro flylines are braided. Braids are inherently balanced structures, with half the yarns spiraling clockwise, and the other half spiraling counter-clockwise. During flight, all yarns are loaded uniformly, assuring maximum strength from the fibers with minimum weight and wind resistance (or parasitic drag) from the line. Braided lines are more durable and abrasion resistant because the yarns are locked into a symmetrical structure. LaserPro flylines are free of internal stresses so they uncoil with none of the "French Knot" or curling tendencies of lower cost, twisted lines. LaserPro lines are easier to set-up, handle, fly, and store.
Wind to your back, Kite in the air.

MikeM
Brookings, OR

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#3 G-Force

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 08:30 AM

Thanks Mike

was trying to point out that LaserPro and PowerPro are made by the same firm. Presumably on some, if not all, of the same plant/machinery.

they say of their fishing line...

We begin with ultra-strong braided Spectra Fiber, then use Enhanced Body Technology to create an incredibly round, smooth, and sensitive line.

"round, smooth and sensitive" - ain't that what we want for kite line ?

What's the difference between LaserPro and PowerPro ? Apart from here in rip-off-Britain where a pre-made set of LaserPro lines (bulk line unavailable) is 75 quid (113 USD) and I can make sets from PowerPro for 15 quid (23 USD) a go.

#4 RevWizard

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 09:37 AM

This topic has been covered a few times before.
For example, take a look at: "Fishing line as flying lines." under "Open Topics". It will show some of the pros and cons.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


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#5 Sailor99

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:13 AM

Have used the 50lbs line for over a year with no problems. Minimal stretch. Used in team flying just fine. No kinking. Love it. The LPG is kind of stiffer which is good, but in these economic times do not worry about buying THIS fishing line Despite what has been said elsewhere. It is not as good as LP but it is mouth wateringly cheaper.
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#6 awindofchange

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 11:23 AM

So you are saying that you can put a bicycle tire from the bike store ($15.95) on your car instead of using that really expensive all season radial tire that costs over $100.00 each???..after all they are both made from the exact same rubber therefore they should both perform exactly the same. One is obviously so much cheaper. :)

Ok, that is a very extreme example to give but it really isn't that far off the mark.

Even though spectra fishing line and spectra kite line are both made from spectra fibers, that is where the similarities really stop.

Like the tires above it is all in the construction of the line. Spectra fibers are "hair" thin and are interwoven many times over, and then those woven braids are again interwoven with each other many times over and so on and so on. The process and way the fibers are interwoven is where the real technology is at. Different weaves will give different results. Fishing line has a weave that is more linear to allow the line to handle sudden strikes and liner stresses without breaking, even though the fibers themselves don't stretch, the way the fibers are woven allows the braid to stretch some to help take the load of the fish strike. Flying line is woven differently to give a more connected feel of the kite without any stretch in the weave. Flying line is also woven tighter to help reduce the possibility of foreign matter getting inside the weave (sand and find gritty salt) which will wear the lines out quickly from the inside out.

As always it seems more and more that you get what you pay for. He he he...after all, why buy a brand new custom made B-Series Pro when you can just buy an EXP, heck they both fly and after all, they are both kites, both have the same carbon frames and both are made from the exact same factory by the exact same machines.... :) :) :) How could they be any different from each other? :)

Hope that helps.

#7 Jeepster

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:09 PM

Kent,

Good post ... thanks.

Cheers,
Tom

#8 RevWizard

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 01:50 PM

Comparison of Fishing Spectra lines to Kite Spectra lines.
I would tend to compare it to normal automobile tires and racing tires on a Formula I or Indy race car. Sure, it will work, but there is a world of difference in how it handles.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
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#9 Sailor99

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:38 PM

BTW just saw the price you paid for the line and my jaw dropped open. Had to go and check the price tag on my reel. There is a fishing shop in gosport who sold me 500 metres for 7.49! It was that level of price difference that was in my mind - LPG would be about 160 for the same length.

I think John's paralel is the closest. Certainly a set of racing tyres is far better than ordinary road tyres. And if I were Jensen Button in a F1 I would probably go for the racing tyres. But if I were the sort of old fella who wears a flat cap and driving gloves to go down the A303 at 60mph then probably budget tyres would be just fine, particularly if they cost 4.6% of the racing slicks!

Stick with the powerpro as money's tight; its 90% of the LPG. If you win the pools go for the LPG.

Edited by Sailor99, 17 May 2009 - 12:04 PM.

Over - Jeremy

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#10 andelscott

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 02:47 AM

BTW just saw the price you paid for the line and my jaw dropped open. Had to go and check the price tag on my reel. There is a fishing shop in gosport who sold me 500 metres for 7.49!


Ah yes, you got the fisherman's price, rather than the kite flyer price. :devil:

Not being in the *industry* I cannot comment on the cost difference, of course. LPG may well be more expensive due to lay-up, the set-up costs and ultimately lower volumes of production batches, etc.

I'm very interested to read more of the detail: design characteristics, how design is achieved and benefits over alternate products for our applications. Value for money isn't just about price and highest price doesn't guarantee effectiveness. Is there ongoing product development in kite lines or do we just get the spin-off benefits from other line development (like fishing line) where it provides cost and/or efficiency savings to the manufacturer?

[JM: thanks for the pointers in other discussion threads]
Andy

#11 Jeepster

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 04:42 AM

... But if I were the sort of old fella who wears a flat cap and driving gloves to go down the A303 at 60mph ...


If?

#12 kiteking

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 05:54 AM

"Braided lines are more durable and abrasion resistant because the yarns are locked into a symmetrical structure."

This is the difference I would be concerned with, How many times can you wrap around other lines before you wear out the fishing line?
Wind to your back, Kite in the air.

MikeM
Brookings, OR

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#13 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 07:37 AM

Remember the powerpro is braded too Mike, and wear has not been an issue at all. Like all my lines they have a sewers' aid treatment though, although I have to say the powerpro tends to lock up less.
Over - Jeremy

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#14 Theresa

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Posted 17 May 2009 - 09:12 AM

So you are saying that you can put a bicycle tire from the bike store ($15.95) on your car instead of using that really expensive all season radial tire that costs over $100.00 each???..after all they are both made from the exact same rubber therefore they should both perform exactly the same. One is obviously so much cheaper. :)

Ok, that is a very extreme example to give but it really isn't that far off the mark.

Even though spectra fishing line and spectra kite line are both made from spectra fibers, that is where the similarities really stop.

Like the tires above it is all in the construction of the line. Spectra fibers are "hair" thin and are interwoven many times over, and then those woven braids are again interwoven with each other many times over and so on and so on. The process and way the fibers are interwoven is where the real technology is at. Different weaves will give different results. Fishing line has a weave that is more linear to allow the line to handle sudden strikes and liner stresses without breaking, even though the fibers themselves don't stretch, the way the fibers are woven allows the braid to stretch some to help take the load of the fish strike. Flying line is woven differently to give a more connected feel of the kite without any stretch in the weave. Flying line is also woven tighter to help reduce the possibility of foreign matter getting inside the weave (sand and find gritty salt) which will wear the lines out quickly from the inside out.

As always it seems more and more that you get what you pay for. He he he...after all, why buy a brand new custom made B-Series Pro when you can just buy an EXP, heck they both fly and after all, they are both kites, both have the same carbon frames and both are made from the exact same factory by the exact same machines.... :) :) :) How could they be any different from each other? :)

Hope that helps.


Good post Kent.

And the bottom line is, you get what you pay for.

LPG is still the best way to go.

:)

T

#15 big bri

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:55 PM

I wondered when Richard was gona ask the question about the line he has been useing and testing[hi Rich].Just to paint a slightly diffrent picture here and i hope Richard,whos a team freind wont mind me saying and explaining what hes doing.
Richard is an experienced Rev flyer,a goodn.Hes also one of those fellows who questiond most things and does analise them at length.Hes a bit of a Boffin and an Engineer by trade.He has allsorts of theorys on line,venting,materials and the chicken and egg.Hes also an educated chap and a dam nice one to....:}.Im glad hes got the line question of his chest.

We tried the line and i was quite amazed..The biggest downer i found[so far] with it was the rougher texture of the line.This gives an almost sawing,grinding feel when in a wrap.Its not so bad that it would distract from the experience,but is ther.The line also doesnt seem to suffer from major Stretch which usually comes with Fishing line or cheep line alternatives to LPG or Shanti.Cant comment on its life span as i think its only a few months Richard has been testing it,and beleive me.He has been testing it.The conditions ive watched him fly in have been quite extreme.Both ends of the wind scale and the line seems to have stood up well[so far].
Personally i wouldnt buy it.I love LPG and atm can aford it.The fishing line is a less exspensive alternative that could be used for practice or Fishing.

The Tyres on cars senario is kewl,but if ya cant aford the Farrari atm,why buy Race tyres for your Stock Car.When remolds will do the job for now.

Just my 2 peneth,Ho,its also a Knighmare to see when its on the deck.Good for catching ankles and Dog owners.

BRIAN...

#16 Sailor99

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:25 AM

Seems a pretty fair summary Bri :clap; The rougness can be sorted real easy. But you are very right about the yellow colour - almost totally invisible. The green version is even worse I should think!

BTW I just discovered from a thoroughly good chap that they also do it in red now. That may well be better to see.

Edited by Sailor99, 20 May 2009 - 06:10 AM.

Over - Jeremy

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#17 G-Force

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 06:48 AM

Thanks all for contributions to this.

Soon as finances improve it will be LPG all the way - have flown other peoples' LPG and honestly it seems flawless to me - it's just not an option at the moment so to keep flying and trying to do the things I want to means thinking "outside the window".

my findings regarding colour..
red stuff - totally invisible on grass - unknown on sand
yellow - great on grass - unknown on sand.

ps I have managed to blag/acquire a new 120 ft LPG set which I'm wrapping in cotton wool and saving for team stuff only - big smiles - looking for transport to get to Ainsdale this Sat.


Rich

#18 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 09:40 AM

FYI: I found that my local Walmart sells PowerPro fishing line in 150 yard spools. The heaviest weight they stock is 65lbs.
Scott A Koenig
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"We muster to fly at a moment's notice"

#19 big bri

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 02:51 PM

I hear that Shimano now own LPG,
Could be a fishermans tale or even a Fluke.Either way.I would think and hope distribution would improve.Hence more retailers of the stuff.Which should mean competion for sales.Then should equal a reduction in cost to the end user.

Could all be a Red Herring,but i hope not

BRIAN...cpt Nemo

#20 andelscott

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Posted 20 May 2009 - 04:10 PM

Could all be a Red Herring,but i hope not


Red herring on fishing line, how unusual is that? :cat:
Andy




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