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The whole bicycle thing


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#1 bartman

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:19 AM

I've been giving this some thought. It sort of goes in the whole direction of a snap turn with it rotating around the centre. Snap turns aren't coming to me and I can't even seem to get my head wrapped around them, but I thought this might be easier to attempt.

I think that because maybe I can do it slower, or slow enough that I can reposition my hands to keep the top wing pulled in as it comes around instead of scrambling to do quick switches. I could build on this to do the snap turns once my hands don't need my brain to figure out where to go.

I also think that perhaps it requires less thumb forward/back extreme to still rotate. Then I would be left with holding a slights thumb rotation and focus on just moving the handles in and out in time with the rotation. Slight thumb rotation would translate into a slower turn to control.

Sounds really simple, but probably isn't. Is this move mostly a timing thing with the in/out handle movement once the thumbs have the opposite rotation just held?

What would be the ideal way to try and program these muscle movements to achieve some level of success to built on instead of ending up frustrated as all get out like I did with snap turns.

Thanks.

Bart

#2 RevWizard

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:35 AM

I've been giving this some thought. It sort of goes in the whole direction of a snap turn with it rotating around the centre. Snap turns aren't coming to me and I can't even seem to get my head wrapped around them, but I thought this might be easier to attempt.

I think that because maybe I can do it slower, or slow enough that I can reposition my hands to keep the top wing pulled in as it comes around instead of scrambling to do quick switches. I could build on this to do the snap turns once my hands don't need my brain to figure out where to go.

I also think that perhaps it requires less thumb forward/back extreme to still rotate. Then I would be left with holding a slights thumb rotation and focus on just moving the handles in and out in time with the rotation. Slight thumb rotation would translate into a slower turn to control.

Sounds really simple, but probably isn't. Is this move mostly a timing thing with the in/out handle movement once the thumbs have the opposite rotation just held?

What would be the ideal way to try and program these muscle movements to achieve some level of success to built on instead of ending up frustrated as all get out like I did with snap turns.

Thanks.

Bart

The best advise I can give you is to try doing it first in slow motion. As you start to getting it correct, then increase the speed, not before.

At a competition(Scheveningen 1996) once, I was a competitor in quads and Simon was the discipline head judge. At the de-briefing he told me I was right handed when flying the REV. What he was referring to is that I flew the bicycle very clean from left to right, however when I flew it from right to left it was quite sloppy. I have improved a bit since, however I am still a bit right-handed.
Once you get the bicycle down, work on the rotations only in the opposite direction of the bicycle. I am not sure whether the original name is the "Moonwalk" or the "Hadzicki Shuffle". The other name is the original name of the bicycle.
Another fun one is the bicycle, stabbing the ground as you rotate across the window. However, if you get this wrong, you could snap a rod.

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#3 REVflyer

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:56 AM

imagine it take two snappy movements, in opposite directions, done at the same time, one thumb forward and the other reverse. Short quick and snappy!

#4 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 10:22 AM

Something that got me started with the "snap turn" and bicycle turns (spinning kite about its center) is to turn by pulling one handle back, like you are turning a dual line kite. Pulling back with the right hand, with a small amount of thumbs back, will make the kite turn counter clockwise close to its center. The quicker you pull back, the faster the turn will be. The kite will turn clockwise if the same is done with the left hand. Experiment with this, be careful in lighter winds or you may pull the kite out of the sky. Let us know what you find!
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#5 Felix Mottram

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 12:05 PM

The best advise I can give you is to try doing it first in slow motion. As you start to getting it correct, then increase the speed, not before.

<snip>


I remember appreciating, in theory, how a Rev 'could be stable' in any orientation. The transitions through 360 degrees are small but precise. The snap turns represent 'throw and catch'. The 'catch' is somewhat more demanding on close analysis as you have to reverse rotational momentum and re-instate vertical stability in one fell swoop.

Slo-Mo is the way to go and that might require 'long-arm' moves for maintaining altitude.

Fast spin with a 'nailed' stop always felt to me like a good training (for muscle memory) method as well.

Felix

#6 Clin

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:44 PM

Doing it slow requires precise control esp if the wind is bouncing, more difficult than fast bicycle turns. I saw Ron Despojado doing it at a kite fest and have been practising the slow-mo ones since.

It's a balance with thumbs back on the driving wing and thumbs forward on the other wing for the rotation, plus all the balance required to maintain vertical/horizontal position. It's a nice, mesmerizing move.. :)

#7 awindofchange

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 09:31 AM

Something else that may help you start mastering the "bicycle" turn is to start with the kite in an inverted position and then "pull" one bottom wing tip on one side upwards while letting the other bottom wing tip drop out. In the inverted position, the bottom wing tip would be the one on the left or right that is pointing straight up.

Kind of more a mental thing really, but by pulling the wing tip upwards you are floating the kite into a circle instead of trying to "Drive" it into a spin through the leading edge.

Once the kite starts into the bicycle turn, keep it floating around smoothly and slowly, letting the inertia of the kite do most of the turning for you while you continue to just coax it around with the handles and controlling the trailing edge of the kite more than the leading edge. If you can start to keep the kite floating around in a circle, you will discover that your hands will almost naturally start moving the way they are suppose to be moving (like the pedals on a bicycle).

This technique helped me, hope it helps you as well.

#8 ramakristan

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 04:46 AM

When I started to learn the bicycle turns, I was going all wrong, then a friend of mine showed me the bicycle exercise swing, where your hands hold the handles while at the same time the legs swing.
The momentum of the hands are the same, the trick now is to make a round circle toward us at clockwise direction.
Do it slow when starting and when you get better as you turn faster, keep it focus on the same point.
So, every time when I fly, I will do some practices clockwise and later anti-clockwise bicycle turns.
Practices make perfect. Hope it helps.

cheers,
chris




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