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Stalling, edge flying, and other questions from a newbie.


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#1 Sage

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:35 PM

Sometimes while flying I gave to much input and the wing would stall and the kite would come crashing down. Is there a way to tell when that will happen based on wind speed?

Is it possible to fly straight up when at the edge of the wind? I have to fly up and into the wind to climb.

Can you put a rev at it's peak attach the handles to something and leave it there? It seems to be pretty stable up there.

Last question reading past discussions it seems blast flyers are flying into the wind. How is this possible? Did I miss understand?

Thank you I love flying. I can't wait to get back out on Saturday.

#2 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:26 PM

A lot of flying the Rev is done by "feel". Getting to know the kite and what it will do when certain inputs at the handles are made in different wind conditions is part of the learning curve. As a beginner, you will find it easier to fly the kite at the higher wind speeds the kite is capable of handling. As you progress and learn what to feel in the handles, and what inputs do what, the easier it gets to fly at lower wind speeds. This is all part of that "muscle memory you will hear about, meaning your brain learns to do things to control the kite without having to think the process out first. Try to get into the habit of walking backwards when the leading edge is facing up, and walking forwards when the leading edge is facing down. This is the beginning of ground management. It will help the kite climb up, and you will notice that once it begins forward movement upwards, the easier it will climb. This is caused by "apparent wind" moving past the sail, giving more lift. You will feel this especially if you are still using the SLE leading edge that comes with the 1.5 SLE.

You can fly a Rev at any attitude and any direction anywhere in the wind window, that is what makes a Rev so much fun to fly. Learning how to do this is the fun part.

A Rev will not stay at the top of the wind window without corrective inputs at the handles.

When ever you fly a Rev to the right or left from straight down wind, you are effectively "flying into the wind". When you reach the point where you can no longer make the kite travel farther up wind,(to the right or left) you have reached the far right or left of the wind window. To get it to go farther, walk upwind, or backwards, and the kite is really flying into the wind. This is what power kiting is all about, whether you are on a board, buggy, or what ever.
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#3 Watty

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:39 PM

Sometimes while flying I gave to much input and the wing would stall and the kite would come crashing down. Is there a way to tell when that will happen based on wind speed?


This is called over-controlling. It can happen in any wind condition, but is more prone to happen in light wind conditions. A good way to see this coming is by feel. If you feel the tension lighten up on one handle, that side is likely to flip. To keep it from flipping, you can give it a bit of a forward tug to keep wind on the front of the sail.

Is it possible to fly straight up when at the edge of the wind? I have to fly up and into the wind to climb.


Yes. It is more difficult though. When at the edge of the window, the wind is coming in at an extreme angle. So, you need to compensate for this by steering a little towards the edge to keep it from falling in. But be careful to over-control the kite. This is a spot where this happens easily and ends ugly.

Can you put a rev at it's peak attach the handles to something and leave it there? It seems to be pretty stable up there.


You can try it I suppose. I wouldn't recommend it, especially in an area with other kites/people around.

Last question reading past discussions it seems blast flyers are flying into the wind. How is this possible? Did I miss understand?


In light winds, the blast is not as beastly. It is fun to fly in real light wind. Once the wind get's to be heavy, it will pull a LOT. However, the blast has the ability to dump all the power at the flick of a wrist.

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#4 Sage

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 07:38 PM

A lot of flying the Rev is done by "feel". Getting to know the kite and what it will do when certain inputs at the handles are made in different wind conditions is part of the learning curve. As a beginner, you will find it easier to fly the kite at the higher wind speeds the kite is capable of handling. As you progress and learn what to feel in the handles, and what inputs do what, the easier it gets to fly at lower wind speeds. This is all part of that "muscle memory you will hear about, meaning your brain learns to do things to control the kite without having to think the process out first. Try to get into the habit of walking backwards when the leading edge is facing up, and walking forwards when the leading edge is facing down. This is the beginning of ground management. It will help the kite climb up, and you will notice that once it begins forward movement upwards, the easier it will climb. This is caused by "apparent wind" moving past the sail, giving more lift. You will feel this especially if you are still using the SLE leading edge that comes with the 1.5 SLE.

You can fly a Rev at any attitude and any direction anywhere in the wind window, that is what makes a Rev so much fun to fly. Learning how to do this is the fun part.

A Rev will not stay at the top of the wind window without corrective inputs at the handles.

When ever you fly a Rev to the right or left from straight down wind, you are effectively "flying into the wind". When you reach the point where you can no longer make the kite travel farther up wind,(to the right or left) you have reached the far right or left of the wind window. To get it to go farther, walk upwind, or backwards, and the kite is really flying into the wind. This is what power kiting is all about, whether you are on a board, buggy, or what ever.



Thanks for your excellent and thorough answer. I hadn't noticed that the handles have a feel to them I will pay attention to that next time I am out. I will work on ground management, I have done some ground management but in 10 mph winds its not hard to get the kite to take up lost ground.

I will play around more with flying into the wind on saturday.

Is there a good site to predict wind speeds?

#5 REVflyer

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 02:47 AM

Spence,
Just try lightening up your grip pressure too!
(Imagine gently holding a baby chick instead of squeezing an angry cobra.)

Let the wind actually pull the handle from your hand,.... that's how light I want your grip to be. A light, delicate touch equals a easier "feel" of the kite as it talks to you down the lines.

Hold the handles in your finger tips and practice ground recovery and field management in low wind. You'll quickly learn how to "pump" a wing and gain altitude. Throw slack at the kite and use the motion gained at the top of the window to glide back down-wind.

Try releasing both handles when the leading edge is heading down. Actually throw them out in front of you and see how the kite recovers area with an inverted glide until they catch the ground and alter the angle of decent.

You can control this glide by gently pushing your thumbs forward (at the kite) as it is descending. How steep of an angle relates to the "feel" down the lines.

Mastering your light wind techniques means you can fly in any weather conditions at any location.

I highly recommend polyester (icarex is my preference) kites and short lines, longer throw handles (or at a minimum, larger hand, arm & leg movements than you use at a steady beach wind location) The Rev B-Series SUL w/Race frame is both durable and light enough to last you many thousands of hours.

Light wind practice eventually allows you to look graceful when nobody else can even keep a kite in the air!

In the photo I'm using the glide, (i know I look outrageous in the pix, but the kite is controlled)

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#6 Sage

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:03 PM

Spence,
Just try lightening up your grip pressure too!
(Imagine gently holding a baby chick instead of squeezing an angry cobra.)

Let the wind actually pull the handle from your hand,.... that's how light I want your grip to be. A light, delicate touch equals a easier "feel" of the kite as it talks to you down the lines.

Hold the handles in your finger tips and practice ground recovery and field management in low wind. You'll quickly learn how to "pump" a wing and gain altitude. Throw slack at the kite and use the motion gained at the top of the window to glide back down-wind.

Try releasing both handles when the leading edge is heading down. Actually throw them out in front of you and see how the kite recovers area with an inverted glide until they catch the ground and alter the angle of decent.

You can control this glide by gently pushing your thumbs forward (at the kite) as it is descending. How steep of an angle relates to the "feel" down the lines.

Mastering your light wind techniques means you can fly in any weather conditions at any location.

I highly recommend polyester (icarex is my preference) kites and short lines, longer throw handles (or at a minimum, larger hand, arm & leg movements than you use at a steady beach wind location) The Rev B-Series SUL w/Race frame is both durable and light enough to last you many thousands of hours.

Light wind practice eventually allows you to look graceful when nobody else can even keep a kite in the air!

In the photo I'm using the glide, (i know I look outrageous in the pix, but the kite is controlled)



Thanks for your advice it's been very helpful. I am going to work on more light wind flying, now that I can fly in regular and high speed winds.

#7 Dean750

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 08:10 AM

Pretty much, most of my time flying over the last 15 years has been in winds less than 5 mph. Pretty much.

As has already been said, moving with your kite is key flying in light wind. Move backwards any time the kite it rising, forwards any time the kite is decending.

I personally just naturally move. Another thing I've always done even while moving is to pump the kite. Personally I'd like to see you learn to fly light wind without learning that bad habit. As an individual flyer it's not a bad thing to help keep the kite up. But it does look a little slopy.

And if you get the chance to fly team, I can tell you from personal experience :blushing: that pumping your kite on the line is NOT a good thing.

Flying with a little more forward on your top leaders and moving your feet is the way to go. I can't remember the name of it, but a team move I practice as an individual to keep from pumping the kite is as follows....

Rev on the ground, LE facing up. Thumbs back, little pop to get off the ground followed by walking backwards, kite strait up to the top of the window, kite turns 180 (LE down) thumbs forward, walk forward, just above the ground either 180 to the original postition or 180 but don't let the kite touch the ground and repeat. Don't jerk or pump the lines though. Try to be smooth.

Dean

#8 Sage

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 08:22 PM

Pretty much, most of my time flying over the last 15 years has been in winds less than 5 mph. Pretty much.

As has already been said, moving with your kite is key flying in light wind. Move backwards any time the kite it rising, forwards any time the kite is decending.

I personally just naturally move. Another thing I've always done even while moving is to pump the kite. Personally I'd like to see you learn to fly light wind without learning that bad habit. As an individual flyer it's not a bad thing to help keep the kite up. But it does look a little slopy.
=


Dean, thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate, I had another great outing today. I was flying on the beaches of Santa Cruz, CA. When I started flying wind speeds were about 3 mph, pretty slow for an EXP. I paid paticular attention to not pumping and ground management. I however did pump to get the kite off the ground which I think is an ok habit to learn.

One thing I also did that helped a lot was shortened my upper lines by 4 inches, which made a huge difference in being able to keep the kite up.

When wind speeds picked up I dropped the 4 inches back to standard and had a great time, still need to work on reverse flying. My son also enjoyed flying got a great picture of us flying together.

One other thing I noticed things that are easy in 12 mph winds are hard at 4 mph and vice versa.

Thanks again for all of your advice and help, your helping me avoid bad habits will make the kite flying more enjoyable as I progress.

Sadly I didn't get my new B series night vented out although, after looking the rated wind speeds of the kite realized, I could have flown it.

#9 Dean750

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 08:58 PM

Frame and line sets might be something to look at for your light wind time flying. The 3 wrap frame in your EXP is a bit on the heavy and stiff side for flying in light wind. Especially if your pulling the top lines in that far. Yes you get lift, but you lose your ability to feel the kite. Myself, if I can't feel the kite at the end of the lines I can't fly it. :blushing: But you'll learn that with experience.
I bet as your skills are right now, your EXP sail, 2 wrap frame (preferably the Race Frame but the 2's are cheaper if money is a factor) and 30 to 60' 90# lines you'd be able to fly in that 3 mph wind standing still if you so choose.
Hope you keep having fun, and when you get the chance to fly with others, jump at the chance. It's AWSOME!!!

Dean

#10 Sailor99

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:20 PM

As you are near Santa cruz try and find some other people to fly with, there are loads as you head south down the coast. Actually flying with others will help no end.
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#11 Watty

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:34 PM

I however did pump to get the kite off the ground which I think is an ok habit to learn.


Pumping while launching does have it's down sides. It ends up being quite easy to lose tension on the sail in between pumps. When launching, try giving one pump to launch, then walking backwards giving lots of pressure on the kite. Give the kite some more wind when you need it.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#12 JeffD

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 01:00 AM

Flying to the edge and feeling the need to fly up to keep the kite going is an excellent thing to notice and a place to learn something important.

As you get nearer the edge you wil feel less pull on the handles which is solid feedback that the effective wind speed is dropping due to the kites angle from you and into the wind. Flying up, walking backwards, changing handle position, moving to the side or up to change the angle are different methods of doing the same thing; keeping wind pressure on the sail as communicated by the changing pull of the lines on the handles.

Work on noticing the changes in effective wind speed to maintain an even pull or to increase or decrease pull with purpose to keep the kite up, land, increase or decrease speed. It will soon become built in to your muscle memory.

Working with this will increase your ability to maintain control in varying conditions. Flying is largly about this. To much pull or to little (out of control) pressure on the sail as reflected in the handles and you leave the condition where you're flying and enter one where you're holding the lines and the kite is blowing around like a leaf falling out of the sky or speeding willy nilly.

Your questions show you're in the game.

P.S. If you find a way to stake down your handles and have the kite sit in the sky be sure to let us know! We'll name the move after you!




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