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How to make simple transitions?


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#1 bartman

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:07 PM

Another question. I'm all over the board today.

I can hold a nice hover facing left or right (imho, it is nice even it does wander a bit), but if I want to flip it from left to right, for example, the kite is all over the place either gaining altitude or losing it or just moving left or right, wobbling all the way. It's not a clean transition. I know, or at least I think I know, I am trying to make a snap turn. I understand the basics of the snap turn, but seem to get totally lost as evident by the kite going everywhere. How can I think this through? I spend time each time I go out working on this and I'm no closer now than I was last fall.

I'm getting better at keeping an inverted hover from wobbling all over the place, but can't snap that around either.

I serious think I have horrid reaction time!

Bart

#2 Kitelife

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:20 PM

Start facing left, hold it for 30 seconds and take a mental picture of how it feels, and your stance...

Switch to face up, hold it for 30 seconds and take a mental picture of how it feels, and your stance...

Switch to face right, hold it for 30 seconds and take a mental picture of how it feels, and your stance...

Repeat, repeat, repeat... Shave it down to 20 seconds, then 10 seconds, then 5 seconds, then 3, then *bang-bang* all at once.

That'd be my advice...

Sounds like your muscles don't know where everything should go as you make the transition, so BRAND it into your muscle memory, in segmented fashion, then bring it all together as you become more comfortable.

Everything with a Rev is segments, break it down... Disassemble, then reassemble the movements. ;)

John Barresi

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#3 ssm1nw

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:23 PM

I was having the same problem, ended up all over the place.
Once i got my brake setting sorted with a little advice from Steven Hoath it made a massive difference.
Not enough brake on and it was driving all over the sky during a turn.


Keith

#4 Kitelife

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:37 PM

Ya, brake will make a big difference too. ;)

John Barresi

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#5 bartman

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:34 PM

Err, no. I don't think so anyways.

I can sit at each position and know where everything is. When I switch between positions it is a mess. At its best it is sloppy, at its worst the kite is all over the place. Not exactly neat and tight. It's like during the position switch I'm doing 30 things that shouldn't be in there. This would be between left, upright and right. I haven't even introduced inverted into the mix. That would be an attempt at clockwork which is where all this ends up I guess, I just don't want to think that far into it yet.

Reading this it would seem that all that is required is to change the handle positions between the three points and it would be a clean snap? Is that true? If it is then I need to discover what those 30 things are I'm doing between each point.

Thanks.

#6 Kitelife

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:36 PM

Whew, I don't think you can fit 30 things in there...

Sounds like you're over-complicating it somehow, there shouldn't be that much to it.

Time for more video. ;)

If you post any, be sure and give us 10 or so attempts at the maneuver?

John Barresi

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#7 bartman

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 03:51 PM

Whew, I don't think you can fit 30 things in there...

Sounds like you're over-complicating it somehow, there shouldn't be that much to it.

Time for more video. ;)

If you post any, be sure and give us 10 or so attempts at the maneuver?


I can provide lessons.

A friend has told me he wants to shoot some video. I may see if he can record this although I am not a big fan of showing stuff like that since it looks so bad!

In the meantime I will try again to just switch positions and not introduce whatever movement, or two, or 30, between the two positions. Clearly, I've made this into more than it should be and can't see the forest for the trees.

Thanks.

#8 Kitelife

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:24 PM

Looking forward to updates on your progress. :)

John Barresi

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#9 Dean750

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:54 PM

Err, no. I don't think so anyways.

I can sit at each position and know where everything is. When I switch between positions it is a mess. At its best it is sloppy, at its worst the kite is all over the place. Not exactly neat and tight. It's like during the position switch I'm doing 30 things that shouldn't be in there. This would be between left, upright and right. I haven't even introduced inverted into the mix. That would be an attempt at clockwork which is where all this ends up I guess, I just don't want to think that far into it yet.

Reading this it would seem that all that is required is to change the handle positions between the three points and it would be a clean snap? Is that true? If it is then I need to discover what those 30 things are I'm doing between each point.

Thanks.



Since I'm trying to help with the axle, I'll try here too.
A smooth transition. Got one for you but I will tell you this. Clockwork, up to 1\8th turn is the basis of everything you'll do with a Rev. ;)
Flying from L to R about 5 feet off the deck give brake to the left hand (top wing), as the bottom wing gets to 2 oclock your bottom hand becomes the top wing so it should be closer to your body. Get me? Top wing hand is in, turn starts the bottom comes in, top goes out, you just bicycled half way ;)
Just right before your kite gets to the 180 position, which is what I'm describing, go full brake flying L to R in reverse.
Only allowing the kite to go 90 degrees before going full brake is the first two sides of a square ;) You'll get it as you work on it.
Between your work on the early pull outter axles and this forward to 180 to reverse transition your going to be WOWing yourself for a while.

Dean

#10 bartman

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 08:11 AM

I'm going to have to figure out what my hands are doing between 9 and 12 and 12 and 3 o'clock because more is going on there than what you describe and what I know to be correct. Since I can do a reasonable hold at each position I have the handle position correct for each. It is really the dreaded in-between that is making me mental on this. It's like it is out of control wanted to go everywhere. One screwed up clockwork.

I do think a big part of the problem is that this takes more movements than the simple things. I can say now that inverted hovering is a simple thing, brakes on. The hard part was figuring out how much was just enough. Sliding was an easy thing. Brake and pull an arm in. Neither required much handle work. This, on the other hand, requires multiple positioning and opposing positions. It's like patting your head while rubbing your stomach. My hands want to do the same thing so between they are getting confused if that makes sense.

Bart

#11 Kitelife

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 08:18 AM

Have you tried it in super-slow-motion?

Same idea, breaking it down, then speeding it up a little each time.

John Barresi

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#12 bartman

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:36 AM

Have you tried it in super-slow-motion?

Same idea, breaking it down, then speeding it up a little each time.


My initial reaction to this is that it would hardly be a "snap" turn if done slow, but I do know what you mean. It has been in the back of my mind all morning how best to change things to help it along. I'll have to spend more time patting my stomach and rubbing my head.

Bart

#13 Kitelife

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:44 AM

Sounds like you need to really absorb how the car makes a turn before you try and skid around a corner.

John Barresi

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#14 bartman

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:54 AM

Sounds like you need to really absorb how the car makes a turn before you try and skid around a corner.


I corner on two wheels. Doesn't everyone? B)

Bart

#15 Felix Mottram

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:57 AM

I corner on two wheels. Doesn't everyone? B)

Bart


On my bicycle, of course...

Felix

#16 bartman

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:04 AM

John - on my FB page is a video my sister-in-law took. In one spot there is a dive stop shown from about 200 miles away. But, watch the kite. That little spot is *almost* a decent snap turn is it not? A little loose, but fairly in control. It just about rotates around the centre. Almost all of my turns have been wing tip turns to this point. The easy-to-do type requiring just one input.

Somewhere between then and now I cannot even manage what you see there in that video so somewhere I have introduced the wrong thing. I working myself into a lather over this today. I need to step back.

Bart

#17 Kitelife

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 11:52 AM

There are two videos, one at 4 minutes and another at 7...

Can you guide me to the footage of your snap turn are little more specifically?

John Barresi

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#18 bartman

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 01:05 PM

There are two videos, one at 4 minutes and another at 7...

Can you guide me to the footage of your snap turn are little more specifically?


There is only one kite video there and it will be the 4 minute one. I can't get into that video from work though to give you the exact time, but it will be near the beginning. Taken late last fall shortly after I could keep it inverted and not flipping.

#19 Kitelife

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 05:45 PM

As sent via PM on FB...

My guess is, the kite is lurching into forward (tension on top lines) for a second when you're making your clock turn.

The trick is maintaining the balance between forward and reverse, the hover, before during and after the clock turn.

I may be stating the obvious... But that's my diagnosis, based on the little I've seen... You're doing great... Keep having fun. ;)

John Barresi

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#20 Love2fly

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 06:24 PM

Hi Bartman-
If you are comfortable hovering vertically right and left, why don't you try switching between the two, leaving out facing up for now. Do it slow, so you get an idea what your hands are doing. As you are going slow, you can compensate if it starts to get away. This should help with your muscle memory and then as you get more comfortable, you can throw in facing up.
Just a suggestion... hope it helps! I'm pretty sure that's where it started to click for me.
Laura
 
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