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#21 AldenMiler

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:50 AM

I'll be on the other field or down the beach with the group flying for fun and games, laughing our asses off at each other. :devil:



I'll be with Rich! (now where did I put those kevlar lines) :devil:

I agree with Bart (specifically his reasons in his second post). I do this for fun and relaxation any kind of competition would ruin it for me.

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#22 Sailor99

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 05:16 AM

At least in Europe, I found that the quad line competitors were always very friendly with each other to the extent of even loaning each other their competition kite for the competition. They are always hanging out together and having a good time. Unfortunately I rarely notice this with the dual line competitors except in some cases the teams.

Totally agree with both sentiments. People who fly quads including those who in the past competed have always been great when I have met them. But the dual liner competitors'/trickers' attitude problem has put me completely off competition in UK. Why would one want to spend time with people who are fundamentally unpleasant.
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#23 Jonesey

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:15 AM

Totally agree with both sentiments. People who fly quads including those who in the past competed have always been great when I have met them. But the dual liner competitors'/trickers' attitude problem has put me completely off competition in UK. Why would one want to spend time with people who are fundamentally unpleasant.



That and you hate us all beating you ;)


Maybe its an age thing but I competed professionally (another sport) most of my life and gave that up because it just wasn't fun anymore (ok and maybe I just wasn't good enough!) .... but in the short year that I've been Rev flying one of the best things has been the lack of competition! I don't think I've met a Rev flyer yet that wasn't happy to share their knowledge and handles .... Having said that the one trial competition I did do was interesting if for no other reason then it showed another side of the game and highlighted techniques that needed attention!

Would I compete on a regular/formal basis .. no thanks, Would I join in if there was an impromptu Rev Game or fun trial of some sort .. absolutely.

#24 Kitelife

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:50 AM

I think they should schedule the comps, then when the comp is about to begin....unveil the kite that the competitors will be using, making it the same kite for everyone!!!

The pilots would have no idea as to which kite they will be competing with so it comes down to overall pilots skill, not specially designed kites specifically for the pilots individual styles. :)

LOVE IT... LOL... The masters pilots would need to swap L-R handles. <grin>

If teams would be sponsored, and it cost nothing for the novice team to compete, I would be all for it...where do I sign.

Novice team would still need to be tought the basics of team flying skills though.

For the record, by definition, if you can fly team (at least dual line), you're not a novice. ;)

True story, hence no novice team events.

Basically what I would say to all of those who have never competed is to at least try it once.

At least in Europe, I found that the quad line competitors were always very friendly with each other to the extent of even loaning each other their competition kite for the competition. They are always hanging out together and having a good time. Unfortunately I rarely notice this with the dual line competitors except in some cases the teams.

I personally competed for about 8 years and judged for about 12 years.

Agreed John, in my 17 years of sport kite competition, I've flown with as many as 60 people in one competition category and as little as 2 or 3... I've seen "pro judges", who were paid to come in and head judge an event for a weekend, and now, where the novices judge masters and masters judge novices... Full sponsorships (air/hotel/travel/fees) and no assistance at all... I've seen cash prizes with big trophies, and plain paper certificates... Highs and lows, "grassroots" and "professional" both.

Don't underestimate the fun and depth of activity in competition... In most cases, it is what you make of it... Even on the dual line side of things, people were typically VERY friendly and helpful, not aggressively competitive, they let the final numbers sort it out... A lot of the attitude associated with competition comes from the type of people who get tunnel vision on winning... They are the minority in kiting, generally limited to a few hot dogs here and there, but it's not enough to ruin comps altogether.

I enjoyed my time competing and am now in my 3rd (yes - 3rd) retirement...

I'll be back competing again in a couple of years, got some stuff in the works for dual line too.

Hi John-
I'll be competing for the first time in Wildwood ... yikes....
My concern is not about whether there would be a Novice class and Experienced Class. If I'm not mistaken, Experienced and Masters will be competing together (it's not separate as at Nationals). Do all the Experienced competators fly first or second or is it all mixed? The reason this is a concern is that if you are watching a Masters flyer fly and you are up next as an Experienced flyer, you might get psyched out. I know that's not the question at hand, but if you add a Novice class to the mix, how intimidating if we are all flying together. I know the judges know who's who and score accordingly, but it's a concern.

They'll fly all the entries for Experienced Multiline Ballet consecutively, then move on to another category altogether when they're done, and so on... They've been ironing out their format for 20 years, it works well enough when they've got the people. ;)

As far as the competiton itself, I just like the idea of challanging myself to do specifics skills and maneuvers, which in turn, will make me a more proficient pilot (hopefully).

Great attitude... Competition will deliver as much enjoyment and growth as you want to take from it. ;)

Regarding how LONG competition takes... I've been in support of MIX format for a while now.

Traditionally, comps work like this...

Ballet - 3 to 4 minutes
Precision - 3 compulsory shapes and a 1-3 minute freestyle w/no music

Mix format takes just the 3 compulsory shapes (45% of total score) and your ballet (55%), run each skill class that way (experienced individual, then masters individual, etc)... This would in theory, cut competition time down by 40% or more, reducing the committed time for both competitors and staff.

Been shot down by the AKA sport kite committee in majority, each time it's come up.

John Barresi

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#25 Scott_of_melnsct

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 10:02 AM

My experience competing is limited to showing llamas. In that arena the general feel or tone of the event was often an outcropping of the attitude of the organizers. A fun collegial attitude of friendly and helpful competition carried to the entrants and attracted people with good attitudes. There were some events that were too serious, and we stopped going to those events. So, come in with a good attitude and have a good time...come in worried about winning and have a bad time.

As for a Novice category: I think two categories is enough. What puts me off is "open" classes. I am going to enter the indoor comp at Wildwood inspite of this hoping for that fun supportive learning opportunity I found at so many llama shows.

I had a geat time early in my showing days getting clobbered by a family that had been showing longer than the santioning show association existed. They took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in every class, but were friendly and helpful and I learned more that weekend than all the rest of my years of showing. Years later I was able to be like them and I'm proud that when I got good enough to sweep a show I was able to help and have fun, and help others have fun.
Moral: Have fun, and you'll have fun
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#26 big bri

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:51 PM

ZERO interest in competing. Already have a trophy wife and a trophy son; there isn't any more room on my mantle.........Seriously, I like to fly my kites, not stand around and watch others fly kites. I may stop down to watch a team demo or something for a few minutes but rarely if ever will my handles be staked out if there is a breeze blowing.

For those into the whole comp thing and all that it entails, have at it! Thats just not me.
I'll be on the other field or down the beach with the group flying for fun and games, laughing our asses off at each other. :devil:


Cant stand and watch to long myself.Attention span thing ,then the wind talks to me and im off flying.Team stuff is kewl as we all know,but i still Adore flying on my own or just messing around and Hanging.

That said.I do think to progress,bring to the masses.Kiteing/rev flying does need a structured League,comps,recognised body.Just not for me i dont think.Maybe one day.
WHEN IM NOT SUCH A BAD LOOSER




Have a great weekend folks
BRIAN...

#27 Love2fly

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:02 PM

LOVE IT... LOL... The masters pilots would need to swap L-R handles. <grin>

... and you'd probably still whip some ass!





They'll fly all the entries for Experienced Multiline Ballet consecutively, then move on to another category altogether when they're done, and so on... They've been ironing out their format for 20 years, it works well enough when they've got the people. ;)


Great attitude... Competition will deliver as much enjoyment and growth as you want to take from it. ;)


Thanks for the info, John. That certainly clarifies things!
I do agree that what you expect to get out of competition and how you pursue it will dictate how much fun you have. I plan on having a lot of fun!
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#28 Dean750

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 11:33 AM

Now this subject doesn't sound so :wacko:

My first and only time competing was in dual line. I was told I should start in the Experienced class right off. Skip Novice and Intermediate. While the skill level was there, the nerves weren't after watching everyone else fly. But that was dual line a looong time ago and the other people there weren't real talkitive. Not till after my warp 9 ballet to Hootie and the Blowfish :lol: "you should have done this, adjusted that, what are you thinking flying that kite set up that way in these winds????" :lol: If they only knew what would have happened if I hadn't made those changes right before I entered the box. B)

Rev fliers now ah days talk, help and just do what ever it takes to have a good time together as a group. Whether it's a mega fly or just individuals out flying.
If those attributes carry over to the competitive side then the only real difference in what normally happens with a group of Rev fliers is that theres a graded test for those who chose to take it.

I don't see a need for a third class in competition for Quad Line. Not if we do it together. Get my drift?

Dean

#29 kitecowboy

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:57 PM

I love my dog, I hate dog shows. I know your dog(or kite flying ability) is better than mine but thats not why I got my dog, or my kites.

my2cents, Cowboy.
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#30 Dean750

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 03:41 PM

In my experience, limited as it is, there is a wall that I (not speaking for others) run into. Meaning that all I know is what I do. Flying with others is great. It's a new experience. But from an individual stand point I don't have resources to turn to when thinking about what to do next. Just out flying with others doesn't seem to help to the extent I'd like it too.
What I mean is that being in an enviorment where your there to put out your best for others to see is a driving force in learning. At least it is for me.

Here's a question that really sounds stupid in my own head but here it is.
Whats the difference between Experienced and Masters classes?

I guess what this all boils down to is what each of us defines compitition as. From what I've read here it reads like it's viewed as a stressful, "I'm not good enough", attitude killer.
Someone did state earlier in the thread that it is what you make of it. With the way Rev fliers are with one another I think a comp. made by Rev pilots for Rev Pilots and judged by Rev Pilots would be a great thing.
Between Clinics and Comps, we could all gang up and whoop JB..... Maybe :lol:

Dean B)

#31 monkey

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:45 AM

Whats the difference between Experienced and Masters classes?


I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.

Between Clinics and Comps, we could all gang up and whoop JB..... Maybe :lol:


Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS :lol:
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#32 Dean750

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 09:51 AM

I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.



Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS :lol:



Well, I did say WE Monkey. That includes you if ya want. ;) :lol: Few more clinics is all you need :w00t:

Dean

#33 monkey

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Well, I did say WE Monkey. That includes you if ya want. ;) :lol: Few more clinics is all you need :w00t:

Dean


I think once my new kite comes and I'm off this backtracke that John makes me fly, I'll have a MUCH better chance ;-)
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#34 RevWizard

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 07:54 PM

I think the only real difference is sheer experience in flying. In Experienced, you see a whole range of flyers and varying amounts of true choreography. In Masters, the choreography is likely well nailed down.



Good luck with that, I've been trying for YEARS :lol:

In my prime, JB had the chance to compete against me at Guadeloupe in 1997. He choose to compete dual-line team instead. Hmm!

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#35 Kitelife

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 01:03 AM

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home. ;)

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.

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#36 Dean750

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 05:47 AM

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home. ;)

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.



Is this one of those, "any excuse is better than none." kinda moments? :lol:

I know, I have an excuse for everything, so I'll just sit back, shut up and see were this goes.

Dean :P

#37 RevWizard

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 08:47 AM

Is this one of those, "any excuse is better than none." kinda moments? :lol:

I know, I have an excuse for everything, so I'll just sit back, shut up and see were this goes.

Dean :P

When you look at our skills today, it is without question JB has the advantage.

Back in 1996, I had just won back to back, seven European competitions, including the European championship.

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#38 Simon

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:15 AM

We weren't allowed to fly BOTH individual and team... Only one or the other...

Had to fly team, otherwise the rest of Captain Eddie's would have had to stay home. ;)

Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day.


Ah Guadeloupe... I remember it well, First time I'd every flown full precision for Quad... I was invited to compete, I still believe to make up the numbers. I was STACK UK Head Judge at the time. When the guys from the states turned up they were very much OK let go see who will win. The Europeans said - We've ALL won, we're in Guadeloupe B)

Didn't like the politics in the sport at the time, for example two set of scores posted for precision ?? How does that happen??

For me and I'm sure I've said it before and I think someone mentioned Quad flyers judged by Quad flyers, this happened at Either a Euro cup or North Sea cup many years ago. Best judging panel I've run & best competiition, we spent nearly a couple of hours debreifing teh flyers after the competition explaining what the judges were looking for and why such adn scuh scored whatever points. We even got to the point were ALL competitiors and judges agreed to see ALL raw scores. Good for judges as you cant hide but risky and only suitable with such a great panel of judges (Me, TC, Jayne Capp & a guy from Holland - really sorry I cant remember his name but he flew Quads)

I believe ALL clases under master must have a de-brief so the flyers know what they did or didn't do.

Mix format takes just the 3 compulsory shapes (45% of total score) and your ballet (55%), run each skill class that way (experienced individual, then masters individual, etc)... This would in theory, cut competition time down by 40% or more, reducing the committed time for both competitors and staff.

Been shot down by the AKA sport kite committee in majority, each time it's come up.


We started this in the UK in the mid ninetites, it was an idea worked between judges, National Director and organiser to satisfy each.
3 set figures can be on a board where spectators can see them, as all the flyers fly the same the public get to be judges too. Thi sis followed by a ballet so it break up the less audience friendly part with music. And the organiser get a series of ballets. We always started early before the main crowds arrive, then the best ballets can be flown again for the crowd.

Oh and John me think one does not tell the whole truth...."Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day."

You really think that he was in shape to fly Quad as well as Team :wacko:

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#39 Kitelife

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 10:32 AM

For me and I'm sure I've said it before and I think someone mentioned Quad flyers judged by Quad flyers, this happened at Either a Euro cup or North Sea cup many years ago. Best judging panel I've run & best competiition, we spent nearly a couple of hours debreifing teh flyers after the competition explaining what the judges were looking for and why such adn scuh scored whatever points. We even got to the point were ALL competitiors and judges agreed to see ALL raw scores. Good for judges as you cant hide but risky and only suitable with such a great panel of judges (Me, TC, Jayne Capp & a guy from Holland - really sorry I cant remember his name but he flew Quads)

Superb, really superb... I love that approach, keeps both the flying and judging honest.

I believe ALL clases under master must have a de-brief so the flyers know what they did or didn't do.

Agreed!

Oh and John me think one does not tell the whole truth...."Both Carl Robertshaw and I regret that stupid rule, to this day."

You really think that he was in shape to fly Quad as well as Team :wacko:

I think given a level of competition such as was at Guadeloupe, he could have risen to nearly anything.

One of the things I've always appreciated about him. :)

John Barresi

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#40 Simon

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Posted 30 March 2009 - 12:24 PM

I think given a level of competition such as was at Guadeloupe, he could have risen to nearly anything.

One of the things I've always appreciated about him. :)



John, I love Carl as much as the next guy... But he had a broken ankle so as much as I'm sure he would have done a good job in Guadeloupe. And as unfortunate as it was I think not doing both was actually good for him. After all he got to spend more time at the pool and with his Mum.

Also if we opened it up further then James would have competed as well... aqn dwho know who else?

By the way does anyone have the scores on a web site?

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