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Inverted flying & hover


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#21 bartman

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 04:36 PM

I know exactly where you are and how you feel. I didn't think it was possible to get the hover, but people here helped me a lot with tips and techniques so if what I say can help you then it is a little giving back for what I received. It will come.

Bart

#22 Windbag

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 05:16 PM

DON'T allow your hands to become still. Very lightly (for lack of a better word) BOUNCE your brake lines. The bouncing is alternating, constant, light and rythmic. Seems to help stabilize the kite.


Oh, good point. When I was learning LE hover I watched the video a few times & noticed John constantly moving his hands to keep the hover happening. I learned that & LE hover works much better. If it works for one it should work for the other. I'll try that.

When your LE is vertical in either direction you should still be keeping your hands at the same angle. The best description from me is this.
" Top wing hand - handle should be horizontal, bottom wing hand should be strait up and down. If you can get into the habit of doing this while flying side to side or hovering with the LE vertical you'll notice that the bottom wing won't swing back and forth. It will merely follow the top wing."


I've been keeping both hands horizontal with the top hand for the top of the wing. I'll try keeping the bottom hand vertical. That may help with stability for problems I haven't focused on yet.

Thanks, Dean. I appreciate the input.
Have fun, Ray.

#23 Windbag

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Hi, I was wondering what frame you were using as it appeared to be quite bendy, when I was learning reverse take off I found it helpfull to use a fairly stiff frame so that the wind pressure on the sail was fairly constant, then I reversed up an inch or two then landed and then gradually reversed up higher as I found it helpfull to have the ground as a reference point, if you only have the one frame try practising reverse/hover in lighter wind's to start with, plenty of other stuff you can do when the wind is stronger, with practice I am sure you will master it, above all else have fun.


Well. I only have the one frame that came with the old Rev 1. I think it's a four wrap but not sure. I started off flying it as the winds were only 5+ mph & I hadn't flown it for some time.

I am having fun! :lol:

Thanks.
Have fun, Ray.

#24 Windbag

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 05:36 PM

After watching your video, I would suggest that you don't try to fly so far off the ground. Just launch up 1-2 feet and hold the kite there. If it becomes unstable, put it back on the ground, and start again. After a number of times, when the frustration starts to set in, just fly around and relax for a few minutes. Then go at it again.

Don't frustrate yourself with trying long inverted flights until it becomes more automatic.


Jim, I got it. It's that P word. Patience & it will come.

I'll try the short hovers a few feet off the ground & see how long I can hold steady. Then go for greatness only after I have the short hovers down.

Honest, I'll try that :) .

Thanks.
Have fun, Ray.

#25 Windbag

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 05:47 PM

The Rev acts very differently with the leading edge leading vs inverted. You just cannot drive the inverted side as fast or hard. If you try to "over control" with the LE leading, the worst that seems to happen is a loss of some air and some fluttering/lufting. If you do so inverted, the tip flips and we call it "over controlling".

Thanks, that's the first time I've seen an explanation of over controlling.

The tip that was most helpful to me was the concept of keeping the sail full, and if I want to initiate more drive, to pull back some, either by pulling the arms or body motion.

Good luck! (and I never thought just 3 months ago that I'd find being inverted so much fun)

Bob


I'll try the step back to help keep the sail full.

Oh, fun. I like that.

Thanks.
Have fun, Ray.

#26 Windbag

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 05:53 PM

there is a lot of good advice here.. but one thing that was told to me by Steve D. at a clinic a year ago..


Breathe.....

seriously, it was the most helpful thing anyone told me.. the tenser you are.. the harder it is.. relax and breathe!!!


Amy, good point. :P I do find I'm concentrating on holding the hover & everything else seems to fade to the background. Probably I should check my breathing as well. LOL

Hey, missed you in Long Beach. I thought you & Connor were coming.

Thanks.
Have fun, Ray.

#27 Dean750

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 07:47 PM

Maybe us Oregonians should set up a fun fly kinda thing where we can bounce ideas around and those with a little more experience could be there for some hands on training. It's hard to describe compared to standing there and showing you.

Dean

#28 Windbag

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:55 AM

Maybe us Oregonians should set up a fun fly kinda thing where we can bounce ideas around and those with a little more experience could be there for some hands on training. It's hard to describe compared to standing there and showing you.

Dean


Dean, that's a great idea. :) I'm still struggling with many things I would like to improve. The Rev clinic in Long Beach showed me how fun it is to fly with other Revoholics. I'm down here flying by myself & have only seen 1 dual line kite on the beach a few months ago.

A possible idea for a place to fly is Haceta Beach Park in Florence. A great expanse of beach in front of the park & Driftwood Shores Hotel / Restaurant. I've never flown there as Horsfall Beach is only 10 miles north of Coos Bay. I fly there as there are no headlands in the way making the wind squirrely.

I'm willing to drive. Any other ideas about a place to fly that's more centrally located? I have little idea of how many other Oregon fliers are out there.

How many do you know about in OR?

Thanks for your input.
Have fun, Ray.

#29 Dean750

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:30 PM

Dean, that's a great idea. :) I'm still struggling with many things I would like to improve. The Rev clinic in Long Beach showed me how fun it is to fly with other Revoholics. I'm down here flying by myself & have only seen 1 dual line kite on the beach a few months ago.

A possible idea for a place to fly is Haceta Beach Park in Florence. A great expanse of beach in front of the park & Driftwood Shores Hotel / Restaurant. I've never flown there as Horsfall Beach is only 10 miles north of Coos Bay. I fly there as there are no headlands in the way making the wind squirrely.

I'm willing to drive. Any other ideas about a place to fly that's more centrally located? I have little idea of how many other Oregon fliers are out there.

How many do you know about in OR?

Thanks for your input.


Theres a few of us. I'm sure I'd only be able to stay for a day. Lodging and stuff would be a problem for me. But I could drive over to the meeting spot for a day. So some place we could all meet up at around 9 or 10am and fly till dark and still be able to drive home is what we should aim for.
If theres not enough interest I'm sure we could set up a weekend to fly inland somewhere.

Dean

#30 manny

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:04 PM

Ray, I hate to bring this up, but there is one thing to consider when you are learning and that is age. I say this because I found out that I (now 47) do not learn as fast anymore as I used to 20 years ago. One thing you and I have going for us time. We have more time to practise than the evage flyer who has to go to work 5 days a week. So don't give up. You will manage and if - no when- you do, you will go home, pour a drink, tell everybody about it and be PROUD. I did. It seems that one is batteling one or another move till you almos dispair. I had several days when I wanted to burn my kite. But then you have a little success and you are full of it till you get stuck on the next thing to master. Right now , for the life of me I can't manage to hover, fly forward and back at the 4:30 position. :blink: All the others work fine.
There is one more thing about the inverted hover. JB told me that about a year ago and I could not confirm that till about two weeks ago: When you are in an inverted hover your kite gets more stable when you slowly walk foreward. Yes it is. One more thing that helped me - forgive me if it has been mentioned before- mind over matter. Your kite does something you don't want it to do: park it, and in your mind go over the kite's movement. Think about what you have to do in order to prevent that. EA the left wing drops, what do you do have to do to raise the left wing? It is a lot of concentration and quite exhausting (I was poooped after my first 5minutes of team flying) but it gets easier.
Lastly: give it a break! If you simply can't get a thing going, leave it alone and just fly your kite. Yes it is fun to just fly left and right and up and down without any concept. And it should ALWAYS be fun.

From on rooky to another: Hang in there :kid_cussing:

#31 Kitelife

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 01:38 PM

Lastly: give it a break! If you simply can't get a thing going, leave it alone and just fly your kite. Yes it is fun to just fly left and right and up and down without any concept. And it should ALWAYS be fun.

From on rooky to another: Hang in there :kid_cussing:

Great point Manny... Being able to reset mentally is really crucial.

Even with 17 years of experience I still have "one of those days" now and then, during which I just scale back on my efforts and enjoy simple, smooth flying instead of trying so hard. ;)

John Barresi

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#32 manny

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 02:31 PM

I just watched your video and I must say: "I still feel you pain" But remember we all were at this point, got, or are getting over it. Gosh I talk like a guru which I'm certainly not. But one day, when I'm 95 years old and my nurse rolled my wheelchair out on the beach, set up my kite, gave me the handles and I hold the kite in a perfect inverted hover -thats all I can still do- people will say: Look thats Manny, AND HE STILL GOT IT :bones:

#33 kitecowboy

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 04:27 PM

I just watched your video and I must say: "I still feel you pain" But remember we all were at this point, got, or are getting over it. Gosh I talk like a guru which I'm certainly not. But one day, when I'm 95 years old and my nurse rolled my wheelchair out on the beach, set up my kite, gave me the handles and I hold the kite in a perfect inverted hover -thats all I can still do- people will say: Look thats Manny, AND HE STILL GOT IT :bones:



that sounds fun but be sure those wheelchair brakes are set. ;)
Cowboy, rocks in your pockets couldn't hurt.

#34 Windbag

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:49 PM

Ray, I hate to bring this up, but there is one thing to consider when you are learning and that is age. I say this because I found out that I (now 47) do not learn as fast anymore as I used to 20 years ago. One thing you and I have going for us time. We have more time to practise than the evage flyer who has to go to work 5 days a week. So don't give up.


Yes, I do like being able to go fly anytime the wind's right. :) Couldn't do that when I had a job.

There is one more thing about the inverted hover. JB told me that about a year ago and I could not confirm that till about two weeks ago: When you are in an inverted hover your kite gets more stable when you slowly walk foreward. Yes it is. One more thing that helped me - forgive me if it has been mentioned before- mind over matter. Your kite does something you don't want it to do: park it, and in your mind go over the kite's movement. Think about what you have to do in order to prevent that. EA the left wing drops, what do you do have to do to raise the left wing? It is a lot of concentration and quite exhausting (I was poooped after my first 5minutes of team flying) but it gets easier.


I remember John showing us at the clinic how the inverted kite floats when walking forward. I'll try that.

Lastly: give it a break! If you simply can't get a thing going, leave it alone and just fly your kite. Yes it is fun to just fly left and right and up and down without any concept. And it should ALWAYS be fun.

From on rooky to another: Hang in there :kid_cussing:


You're so right about just flying to have a good time. The other skills will come in time as I practice more.

Thanks for the tips.
Have fun, Ray.




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