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Question for REV RE: Pigtails on handles.


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#1 stryker2

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 05:59 AM

Since it's recommended to replace and add longer pigtails for line adjustment, why doesn't Rev just supply longer (double the length) pigtails with the handles to begin with?
I don't quite get the reasoning behind supplying short pigtails, and then suggesting you replace with longer ones for better line tuning? could someone please enlighten me?  :?
Perhaps I'm missing something.

I have made do, and been using the supplied short pigtails and made adjustment knots on the lower line. Not great, but at least I have 3 adjustment points.

#2 antman

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 06:57 AM

the only rev that came with long top leaders was my indoor but i use both on the beaches when the winds are smooth i use the short pig tails in land where the winds are rougher i switch to my longer leaders i too wonder why rev doesnt do that but i guess its because everybody has diffrent ways of tuneing kites
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#3 stryker2

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 07:23 AM

That's true, howeve it's easy to shorten but you have to replace to lengthen.
When I order my extended handles, I will ask Lolly to double the length on the pigtails that's all. :)

#4 RevWizard

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 11:38 AM

Why don't you make your own pigtails?
It is quite easy and then you get exactly what you want.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

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#5 stryker2

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 01:23 PM

John sure I can make my own. I was just questioning why longer pigtails are not supplied, if people are in any case changing them for longer ones. I would think the logical thing to do would just supply with longer pigtails, then we wouldn't have to discard what was supplied with longer.

:)

#6 RevWizard

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 01:54 PM

John sure I can make my own. I was just questioning why longer pigtails are not supplied, if people are in any case changing them for longer ones. I would think the logical thing to do would just supply with longer pigtails, then we wouldn't have to discard what was supplied with longer.

:)

Some probably could care less with the present length. Others would like something longer or shorter. Then I am sure there are some out there who would like thicker or thinner big tails.
The question, is how long and thick should the pigtail be to satisfy everyone? Only providing a larger selection would solve that, but not very practical in a production environment.

Some pigtail history
==============
The early REV handles did not have any pigtails at all. The lines had clips on the end. They attached to the D-Rings on the handles.
In an article I wrote I think in issue 1/95 of "Drachenmagazin" in the spring of 1995, I apparently introduced the pigtail concept for Revolution kite. The basis of this came from dual line kite article written by Bernd Malle in issue 2/94 of "Drachenmagazin" which I adapted to the Revolution.
A number of years later Revolution started attaching pigtails to their handles. How many years later, I don't know. I am only guessing by saying after 2000.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#7 stryker2

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 03:22 PM

Well it's a pleasure to "meet" the originator of the pigtails on Revs, which definitely improves handling in different wind conditions. :)
All the knowlege on kiting that I have acquired up till now (which is not much by a long shot), has all been from online forums.
I am very grateful to all those who have helped and advised me along the way.
6 months ago I accidently came across a Ray Bethel video, and was in awe. (The only kites I remember, were the one's we made as kids out of tissue pape and bamboo, that were a challenge to get up in the air to say the least)
I bought my 1st. kite back in July 06 (Ballistics Phoenix 2.2m quad foil) .... I was hooked after that. I have been buying at least one kite per month, 4 of which are revolutions :) and my collection continues to grow.
This been said, I have had to make a lot of sacrifices to feed my addiction.

#8 giuseppe

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 09:04 AM

Hi,

After making a number of custom handles, all of then equipped with pigtails with some knots to fine tunning the lines, I have found that simpicity is better than a whole lot of possible adjustments.

Long pigtails full of knots tend to tangle, to interfere each other while you are flying.

Now I use a main line pigtail with just one knot (the standard length that comes with rev handles, about 7 inches??) and a brake line pigtail of the same length but wit a couple of knots, to fine tune the brake line.
Of course, I have both lines equalized to the same length, as a reference.

Up to now, I have found this good enough to fly from SUL to the vented one, but ..... I want to learn more! :lol:

Have you found useful any of you, to modify the pigtail length depending on the wind speed or any other variable?

Regards,
Jose Luis
Mistral Equipo de Vuelo
http://mistralequipodevuelo.blogspot.com

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#9 Baloo

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 09:14 AM

I think, and I may well be wrong as I am fairly new to Revs.

Once you actually get tuned into a or a number of kites you porobably need less adjustment. At the start (me) being able to tune the handles is usefull.

#10 Kitelife

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:32 AM

I tend to fly the standard or SUL sails with a lot of brake in the settings, whereas my vented usually requires one or two additional knots of forward tuning... Shorter top lines, or longer bottom lines. With the vented, lift is slight reduced, requiring a sharper angle on the kite.

Also, when the winds get up over 25mph, I tend to let those two knots back out, even on the vented... More brake = less pull + more control.

John Barresi

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#11 antman

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 01:05 PM

well so far ive only needed adjustable pigtales for my indoor and lomax tail spin all of the other kites are pretty much good unless im missing something.. im sure john will show me if there is :lol: but i do alot of beach flying and where im from the big beach as the smooth winds well enough talk im getting geared up for more dune shreading here in hateras beach thank god for wireless connection so i can keep in touch with my revolution people :lol:
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS

#12 awindofchange

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 02:21 PM

On pigtail length, one thing that I think need to be considered is simplicity for new pilots getting into the sport of kite flying. If Revolution made extra long pigtails then people might start complaining that they were too long and get tangled or snagged, they should be shorter. If Rev made long pigtails with multiple adjustments then people may start complaining something like "Why do I need to adjust it, why doesn't Rev just make it so that it is adjusted correctly from the factory?" The interesting thing is that everyone seems to have a different style on flying. Some people like to hold the handles nearly vertical, others like to hold them swept back with longer brake lines, others like to hold them with longer front lines. It would be nearly impossible to get one setting to fit everyone.

The experienced pilots know to add in adjustments to help with their "Advanced" moves. A beginner is usually only concerned with keeping the leading edge pointed up and not turning the kite into a lawn dart. LOL The B-series comes with adjustments on the handles mainly because that kite is considered an "Advanced" kite. Generally, the advanced pilots (could be anyone who has been flying longer than one week) will be able to utilize the extra adjustments and understand why they are there. Normally once they are set they are not moved except in extreme wind conditions.

I think Rev's approach of keeping things as simple and as easy as possible for new people to enter the "dark side" is the best approach. Besides, adding in extra pigtails and adjustments can be done with spare change found in most ash trays.

#13 giuseppe

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 07:36 AM

I tend to fly the standard or SUL sails with a lot of brake in the settings, whereas my vented usually requires one or two additional knots of forward tuning... Shorter top lines, or longer bottom lines. With the vented, lift is slight reduced, requiring a sharper angle on the kite.

Also, when the winds get up over 25mph, I tend to let those two knots back out, even on the vented... More brake = less pull + more control.


Thanks John, your explanations are so simple to understand and completely logical. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Im eager to try these settings as soon as stops rainning.......(unless you know a trick to fly in the rain ;) )

Thanks again for sharing your experience.

I also agree with awindofchange. Simplicity is the basics of good work.
Mistral Equipo de Vuelo
http://mistralequipodevuelo.blogspot.com

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