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Standard Leader lengths


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#21 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:04 AM

Felix, you can't really stand shoulder-to-shoulder around me, . . . but it's even worse in a low wind competition. I've scared the field director a couple of times swinging this long handles around aggressively! With dear friends I've even intentionally banged my buddies in the ribs, to get more personal space or create havoc.

Revs are so much more fun compared to the dualies. The verbal interactions of the fliers & close proximity makes a great show, even without any witnesses.

Ben Dantonio provided my bride with a kite once, but instructed her NOT to get any lessons from that flailer husband of hers. The world doesn't need any more dangerous quad-line pilots like him!


Getting the mega-team at Bristol to move on the ground was an interesting moment! We were not exactly standing shoulder to shoulder in that situation.

Some of iQuad, JB in particular, move a lot on the ground!

Felix

#22 Kitelife

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 10:38 AM

It's all in the footwork. ;)

You can count on Monkey holding his ground however, like a rock. <grin>

(love ya buddy!)

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#23 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 11:37 AM

It's all in the footwork.

<snip>


I'm thinking 'pulling' starts and 'pushing' stops, 'pulling' upward turns and 'pushing' downward turns.

Musicians 'do it' with feeling, so I wonder what Monkey is up to! <grins>

Felix

#24 Baloo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 01:08 PM

I am pretty good at a ground hover. Can do it all Day, no hands as long as there is a ground stake on the handles.

Can even walk away from it and hold the hover with mind control.

Bet Monks can do that too. At last, found something I can do as well as one of iQuad.

#25 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 01:13 PM

I am pretty good at a ground hover. Can do it all Day, no hands as long as there is a ground stake on the handles.

Can even walk away from it and hold the hover with mind control.

Bet Monks can do that too. At last, found something I can do as well as one of iQuad.


Yeh, but, what happens if someone walks through your lines?

Felix

#26 Baloo

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 01:18 PM

Good point Felix. Maybe I should go for the sticks on the back, whatever they are called, I have seen so many names.

Could even do a ground hover without lines then.

#27 quaa714

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 01:25 PM

Could even do a ground hover without lines then.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#28 big bri

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 01:35 PM

What would you say are the Perfect [virtual] Leader lengths. :)

BRIAN...17GERUPS

#29 Baloo

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:57 PM

Ones wot make U fly like JB!!

Getting closer Bri, bet you can almost taste it by now.

#30 big bri

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 11:37 PM

Make ya fly like JB,Mmmm.

Ile have a pair to please and some Robertshaws for the Weekends please

Have a great weekend all

BRIAN...16GERUPS

#31 Jeepster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 05:39 AM

What would you say are the Perfect [virtual] Leader lengths. :)

BRIAN...17GERUPS


I'm confused ... yea, yea that's easy to do these days. I just left your posting where you showed the mega vented EXP sail. So, how is it that one is so liberal with trying different sails, but expresses a Puritan approach with the length of leaders?

Asking for a single dimension, factory supplied, perfectly knotted leader is like asking for one size of whitie tighties. I don't even want to imagine Mike Kory and Baloo trying to agree on the correct size ... let alone imagine how they'd look utilizing the product of their discussion.

Oh sorry, got to go, my taxi is here.

See you in about three weeks,
Tom

#32 big bri

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:16 AM

I'm confused ... yea, yea that's easy to do these days. I just left your posting where you showed the mega vented EXP sail. So, how is it that one is so liberal with trying different sails, but expresses a Puritan approach with the length of leaders?

Asking for a single dimension, factory supplied, perfectly knotted leader is like asking for one size of whitie tighties. I don't even want to imagine Mike Kory and Baloo trying to agree on the correct size ... let alone imagine how they'd look utilizing the product of their discussion.

Oh sorry, got to go, my taxi is here.

See you in about three weeks,
Tom


Hi Tom[C U in three weeks ? :) which fly],its an Sle.Not Exp.EXP is the thread Title.That was the first Mega Vented experiment.This is the Mark 2 version in the same thread.
Now your confused pal...lol

The Leaders,Opened question realy Tom.Promote thought and gain info from others.As John Mitchell said early on.Individuality/personal prefrence.

I still think ther should be a std though.Then thers a bench mark to gauge from.

BRIAN...16GERUPS

#33 Jeepster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 09:24 AM

Hi Tom[C U in three weeks ? :) which fly],its an Sle.Not Exp.EXP is the thread Title.That was the first Mega Vented experiment.This is the Mark 2 version in the same thread.
Now your confused pal...lol

The Leaders,Opened question realy Tom.Promote thought and gain info from others.As John Mitchell said early on.Individuality/personal prefrence.

I still think ther should be a std though.Then thers a bench mark to gauge from.

BRIAN...16GERUPS


Brian,

I'll see you at Kite Party. Can't wait to see what the fourth kite in your new Pro series is ... I'm guessing an SUL version.

Okay, so I took the title literally ... the picture shows the facts ...

Thoughts on leaders: The first Rev I flew was Backdraft's kite, which was already set up with an appropriate amount of break. I could control it reasonably for a first timer ... and that was in 20+ mph winds. Then I ordered a B-series and attempted to fly it with only forum assistance ... it was fifty miles to the next Rev flyer. Got all caught up and confused with the "use the X knot on the top and the Y knot on the bottom when the winds are milling around" advice. If we don't have a standard knot pattern, why talk about which knot you're using? Once I finally figured out what the handles needed to feel like, I was off on my flying adventure and having fun.

Ii could be good to standardize leaders for beginners. But, for beginners I think it's more important to include a set of instructions as to what the handles should feel like ... "balance the handles about the middle finger with the kite in the middle of the wind window" type of advice. Explain which way to move the lines to achieve that feel for different winds. Oh yes, talk in terms of the offset difference between the top and the bottom leaders ... not which knots to use ... ie "start with a difference of five inches for a full sail in 10 mph winds" type of description.

As a flyer progresses, they'll adopt their own particular flying style and leader set up ... even JB has changed his preference over the years. Thus, I think most folks in this category will tie their own leaders ... some like two lines of dacron for leaders, some like one line of dacron and some use bridle material. For this category of flyer, it would be better to simply include a length of leader line in the package and let the buyer tie them anyway they like.

I bought a set of custom handles from Ben last fall. When he asked me how I wanted the leaders tied, I told him to just include a length of leader material in the package and I'd save him the cost of having someone tie up a set. I would have changed them anyway to get them to match my present handles. Plus, I didn't have to spend time getting the knots out first.

Bottom line ... I think all handle sets need to come with a length of leader material and a set of instructions with a suggested standard starting point that is aimed at the new flyer.

Off topic ... If someone says "a penny for your thoughts" and you give them your "two cents worth", where does the extra penny go?

Cheers,
Tom

#34 MrDenny

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 09:33 AM

I got a set of the custom handles from Rev and they had the "newbee"' leaders on them too. I was very surprised to see that. I will end up taking off the clips anyway so no big deal. I just never even considered the fact that they would come that way. That leader seems like overkill to me so I was thinking :wacko: I could take the top or bottom leaders and made them single line, which would double the length. I could then put my adjustments on the new longer leader.



I did exactly that a few weeks ago with the handles that came with my vent. I untied the top lines, retied them single to gain length, and tied a few knots for adjustment. Works great


I got to try it and it does work great. That is sure a simple, cost effective upgrade.

Denny #12

.. .


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#35 big bri

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 02:26 PM

Great News Tom.That im looseing my Memory and forgot about the Kp chat we had,Sorry pal.Heads fulla New York and Kp.

Correct,Its an SUL or a Lite std perhaps.Feel free to come and have a go as ive said.

A Leaders THEORY

I reckon,that if everyone recognised ,Top Leaders 10 inch and 10 Knotts.Bottom Leaders 6inch 6Knotts[Lets just say,,,,chillax all]

Then if someone said.I fly on 3 top and two bottom[or whatever]everyone would have a point to relate to.

PHEW,,,,remove the Variables,,,,,great word that Variables[simon]

Have a cracker Jack Weekend

BRIAN...16GERUPS

#36 Jeepster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 04:07 PM

Great News Tom.That im looseing my Memory and forgot about the Kp chat we had,Sorry pal.Heads fulla New York and Kp.

Correct,Its an SUL or a Lite std perhaps.Feel free to come and have a go as ive said.

A Leaders THEORY

I reckon,that if everyone recognised ,Top Leaders 10 inch and 10 Knotts.Bottom Leaders 6inch 6Knotts[Lets just say,,,,chillax all]

Then if someone said.I fly on 3 top and two bottom[or whatever]everyone would have a point to relate to.

PHEW,,,,remove the Variables,,,,,great word that Variables[simon]

Have a cracker Jack Weekend

BRIAN...16GERUPS


Oh, it's the mid-vent I'm coveting a go at ...

I'll buy the knot-an-inch spacing on the top, but not six knots at a knot-an-inch on the bottom. Change the bottom setup to two knots ... the first is at one inch and the second is at one-and-a-half inches. With the half inch spacing on the bottom, you effectively can create 20 differential (brake) settings in half inch incruments from -0.5 to 9.0 inches.

Top Leader Knot......Bottom Leader Knot......Effective Break (in)
.........1..................................2..............................-0.5
.........1..................................1................................0.0
.........2..................................2................................0.5
.........2..................................1................................1.0
.........3..................................2................................1.5
.........3..................................1................................2.0
.........4..................................2................................2.5
.........4..................................1................................3.0
.........5..................................2................................3.5
.........5..................................1................................4.0
.........6..................................2................................4.5
.........6..................................1................................5.0
.........7..................................2................................5.5
.........7..................................1................................6.0
.........8..................................2................................6.5
.........8..................................1................................7.0
.........9..................................2................................7.5
.........9..................................1................................8.0
........10.................................2................................8.5
........10.................................1................................9.0

Looks a lot like the half-step shifting pattern for a multi-speed bike ... two sprockets on the front and ten sprockets on the rear.

Cheers,
Tom

#37 FortFlyer

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 06:06 PM

Why go through all that, Put the bottom as close as you can and do all adjustments from the top.

Quicker easier and you spend more time flying instead of calculating Nascar suspension.
Jim,
Ft. Taber Park & Brenton Point

Rev's are like a carbon framed out-of-body experience

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#38 Jeepster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 07:07 PM

Why go through all that, Put the bottom as close as you can and do all adjustments from the top.

Quicker easier and you spend more time flying instead of calculating Nascar suspension.


Because this is Bri's thread and he asked about theories ... the one I posted above achieves 20 different incremental settings with only twelve knots per handle. If you want to really go crazy, then put four knots on the bottom that are one quarter inch apart and 10 knots on the top that are one inch apart ... voile, 40 settings with one quarter inch incremental brake settings. Should be enough for everyone!!!!

It's not NASCAR tuning ... it just 10 speed bicycle type adjusting ... so if you can ride a bike, you can probably tune your handles. Most of the time with a bicycle, you find yourself staying away from the extremes and using just a few sprockets. Suspect that's happening for most of us with our handles.

However, the theory is still valid ... don't knock "Half Step Handles" until you've tried them.

Cheers,
Tom

#39 Baloo

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:46 PM

I got a better idea (for Rev cuz they would sell LOADS of handles)

Have 20 different sets of handles, all with slightly different leader lengths.

Design like a holster thing so you could carry them all on your belt, then just swap out the handle each time you want to asdjust.

Easy, huh??

#40 big bri

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 11:46 PM

I got a better idea (for Rev cuz they would sell LOADS of handles)

Have 20 different sets of handles, all with slightly different leader lengths.

Design like a holster thing so you could carry them all on your belt, then just swap out the handle each time you want to asdjust.

Easy, huh??


LOL, :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would peobably fall for that one Chris.

Nice work Tom on the Knots.I just used the example of 6inch and 12 inch to get the point over,but as ya say.All Theorys are good.

The old keep it simple works for me though.Dont be blinkered though.Im Open to any suggestions. Read recently that someone had MIXED RODS[shock horror].Race Centre and 4 Wrap outer[omg].I love that as a leading edge.Love the feel of it.If the flyer hadnt posted it.I may have never thought outside the box to try it.

BRIAN...15GERUPS




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