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Broken indoor rods


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#1 Martyjuggles

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 10:07 AM

Hi everyone

So, today there was bugger all wind so i headed down to the beach with my indoor rev for a fly - it was super still so perfect conditions for the indoor. Anyways 10 minutes in, doing an up and over and the LE snaps!!!

Now first off, is this likely/ normal being as the kites never been under stress or more than 1-2mph of wind?? Is it likely the race rods it came with were already weak? or am i flying it to hard?? The spar that has snapped is the outer LE spar and it's snapped right where the ferrule of the inner spar would end.

Second of all - where's the best place to get replacement spars in the UK - i've looked on Kiteworld website where i bought it from but indoor race rods is not something they appear to stock - am i better ordering from the US?

Anyhoo, in spite of the bummer of a broken spar i did have fun flying a 1.5 std sail with 3-wrap frame - a good workout and i reckon it'll be great for my indoor technique once i get back to the indoor!!!!

Thanks for any help

Marty ;)
Thinking about a stack . . .

For life outside of kiting please read my Lymphoma Charity Blog:
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#2 Sailor99

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 11:15 AM

Could you cut down a Rev I RR to fit?
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#3 awindofchange

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 11:39 AM

Revolution rods are scrim'ed (beefed up - reinforced) at each end to give them extra support and added strength where the ferule connects. If you cut down a rod then you would be cutting off this scrim which would be fine as long as you used the cut end on the outside of the kite, but if you put the cut end in to a ferule then you will probably have the rod break again at that point.

I have had several times where a rod has snapped in mid flight under normal flying, usually the reason this happens is that the rod has made contact somewhere or sometime previous and the rod was weakened and just happen to let go during normal flight where you wouldn't have expected it to. I find this much more common on the speed and power series kites. The kite will be hammered into the ground and bounce back up - surprisingly in perfect shape but a couple minutes later during flight the leading edge will explode (like a shot going of). I am pretty sure that the same thing has happened to your indoor as the break is right at the end of the ferule where the maximum stress would occur in an impact situation.

Either way, I am sure that Kiteworld would be able to take care of you and you should always support your local shop whenever possible. If they don't have a replacement in stock, they may be willing to sell you a rod out of one of their indoor packages until the rods come in - which they should be able to just replace once it arrives.

Hope this helps.

#4 RevWizard

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:48 PM

I would suggest first giving Kiteworld a telephone call. They just might have some in their stock room but have not listed them on their web site due to low demand or some other reason.

As for cutting rods down, it is not a good idea because you loose the extra reinforcement on the ends which helps prevent rods from splitting.

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#5 FortFlyer

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 01:58 PM

1 More thing i'm not 100% sure on this but indoor rods are not race rods, That's a whole different animal
Jim,
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#6 Martyjuggles

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:04 PM

1 More thing i'm not 100% sure on this but indoor rods are not race rods, That's a whole different animal


hmmm think there are two different indoor frame sets - an older set and newer race rods. . . i'm willing to be corrected but mine are certainly printed with the silver 'Race Rods' logo so i'm assuming they are . . .
Thinking about a stack . . .

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http://www.marti-tho...0.blogspot.com/

#7 FortFlyer

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:11 PM

hmmm think there are two different indoor frame sets - an older set and newer race rods. . . i'm willing to be corrected but mine are certainly printed with the silver 'Race Rods' logo so i'm assuming they are . . .


The newer indoor rods are 1/4" now but I don't think they are race rods.

From what I have seen so far they are using silver stickers on all 1/4" but the 4 wrap rods now designated by # of feathers would be the wrap count, 2 feathers 2 wrap 3 feathers 3 wrap and race says race and indoor has I believe 1 feather.

I'd just be really sure before you order something that turns out to be the wrong rod.
Jim,
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#8 mousieo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:13 PM

The new indoor rods are better then the older indoor rods.. in my opinion... having flown Connor's new one and my older one one right after the other. I like the new ones better and I know they are printed with silver but I don't believe (??? ) they are actually race rods. I know Lam has used my b and the race rods indoors.. but hey that's to Lam's credit. I haven't even thought of trying it. .
Sorry to hear about the LE .. that is a bummer.
hugs mousie

#9 Watty

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:39 PM

hmmm think there are two different indoor frame sets - an older set and newer race rods. . . i'm willing to be corrected but mine are certainly printed with the silver 'Race Rods' logo so i'm assuming they are . . .


If you look at the label for the Indoor rods, it should be a Silver label that has a single feather on it and says Indoor if it is the newest rod. However, if you have some of the older (but not the oldest) rods they will have the silver label with the flames and it says Revolution.

If you are confused here is a breakdown of the order that these rods changed.
1) 1/8 in rods with the bronze label saying "Professional Use Only"
2) 1/4 in rods with the silver flaming label saying "Revolution"
3) 1/4 in rods with the silver feather label saying "Revolution Indoor"

The Indoor Rods and the race rods are not the same. I believe the Race rods are a bit heavier and stronger than the Indoor rods.

I had to poke through my bag on this one. I still have 2 skinny rods, a set of the original 1/4 in rods, and a set of the new 1/4 in rods.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#10 Sailor99

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 08:49 PM

So the 1/4 flame labeled rods are not RRs watty - right? (They looked the same as my 1.5 RRs). If I understand right what you are saying is that the flame ones are not current so Marty will end up having 4 flame rods and one 1 feather rod - this would be a mismatch and therefore a problem right?
Over - Jeremy

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#11 Watty

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:02 PM

As far as I know, between the flame ones and the feather ones, there was no change in the actual rod, just the label. Also, if you look at the flame ones it does not say Race Rod on them. When comparing one of my rev 1.5 Race rods to both Indoor Rods, there seems to be a difference in thickness between the RR and the indoor rod, but no noticeable difference between the two indoor rods.

I could be wrong on this so if anyone knows better, please correct me.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#12 RevWizard

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:09 PM

If you look at the label for the Indoor rods, it should be a Silver label that has a single feather on it and says Indoor if it is the newest rod. However, if you have some of the older (but not the oldest) rods they will have the silver label with the flames and it says Revolution.

If you are confused here is a breakdown of the order that these rods changed.
1) 1/8 in rods with the bronze label saying "Professional Use Only"
2) 1/4 in rods with the silver flaming label saying "Revolution"
3) 1/4 in rods with the silver feather label saying "Revolution Indoor"

The Indoor Rods and the race rods are not the same. I believe the Race rods are a bit heavier and stronger than the Indoor rods.

I had to poke through my bag on this one. I still have 2 skinny rods, a set of the original 1/4 in rods, and a set of the new 1/4 in rods.

I have one of the first INDOOR Revs.
It has a gold label with text " The Advantage-1.5". These rods are closer to 3/16" ID then 1/8" ID.

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#13 Martyjuggles

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 10:44 PM

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Here is a photo of one of the spars from my indoor, just to clear up any confusion - silver flames says 'Race' on one side and Revolution on the other - closest in description to Waty's option 2. Now if they're not actually Race Rods i could do with knowing exactly what they are so i can order the matching spars - otherwise i'm buying a complete frame set i guess.

Cheers for any further help,

Marty

DSC04056.JPG DSC04054.JPG
Thinking about a stack . . .

For life outside of kiting please read my Lymphoma Charity Blog:
http://www.marti-tho...0.blogspot.com/

#14 Sailor99

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:05 AM

Watty has forgotten more about indoors that I will ever know, but even so I reckon they are RRs - if you recall I borrowed one of your indoor rods to compare to one of my 1.5 RRs and they looked exactly the same. Having said that, I have to admit I didn't look closely at the wall thickness what with it being a chilly day in north west England.
Over - Jeremy

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#15 Watty

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 06:34 AM

I've actually never seen those. Given that they say Race on them, I suppose they very well could be the same. The only other thing I can think of is if maybe these rods are made in the same way as the Race Rods, just with less wraps. Like a 2 wrap vs. a 3 wrap sort of thing.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#16 jsking

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 06:36 AM

Ben ought to weigh in on this one. I do believe that race rods are manufactured differently (top secret) than the other "standard" Rev rods. Indoor rods should be different (structurally) than race rods.

I'm curious, Marty....did you get your indoor directly from Rev? Seems unusual to me that they would ship an indoor with race rods. ...qualify that by noting that I haven't bought an indoor from them in recent years...
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#17 awindofchange

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:20 AM

If you look at the label for the Indoor rods, it should be a Silver label that has a single feather on it and says Indoor if it is the newest rod. However, if you have some of the older (but not the oldest) rods they will have the silver label with the flames and it says Revolution.

If you are confused here is a breakdown of the order that these rods changed.
1) 1/8 in rods with the bronze label saying "Professional Use Only"
2) 1/4 in rods with the silver flaming label saying "Revolution"
3) 1/4 in rods with the silver feather label saying "Revolution Indoor"

The Indoor Rods and the race rods are not the same. I believe the Race rods are a bit heavier and stronger than the Indoor rods.

I had to poke through my bag on this one. I still have 2 skinny rods, a set of the original 1/4 in rods, and a set of the new 1/4 in rods.



I believe that the original 1/8" (more closer to 3/16") rod was not labeled "Professional Use Only" but "Advantage 1.5".

#18 awindofchange

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:27 AM

There is a big chance (and it appears so) that your Indoor was framed in Race Rods and not the actual Indoor rods. The rods you pictured are Race Rods for sure and not the Indoor ones. If you didn't happen to mistakenly change them with one of your other kites then you may want to check with the company you purchased the kite from to see if they accidentally supplied you with the different rods by mistake. There is only a minimal difference between the two but for indoor, it could be a bit more noticeable. As far as a replacement rod, if you are happy with the ones you have then just get a replacement and be done. If not then you would probably want to get the complete indoor frame and swap it out.

#19 Scott A.

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 11:50 AM

My opinion would be to ask Ben, or lolly, They changed the indoor rods In the 07 year, They had the 3/16 older indoor and now the only sell/make 1/4 indoor, It looks to me from the photo is they are 3/16 skinnier/older rod with a silver/Race label,
as far as Mousie inquiry, The new 1/4 rods are stiffer than in Connors, older3/16 rod. Stiffer is the only difference IMHO.
I flew the older rods for a long long time and was bummed at first when they changed, But with a little time I have gotten used to the stiffer rod, It's stiffer, some prefer the older because that is what they were used to, It's matter of preference not better or worse,
But on the real topic/? send that attached photo to REV, IMHO, Rev and only them can answer that ?, IF it is the skinnier 3/16 rod you'll have to find someone who has one they can sell you. Rev is no longer making that older skinnier rod, maybe you could just replace the 2 verticals with the new 1/4 and have 4 rods/one spare, of the skinnier/older 3/16 for the leading edge.
Confused yet?
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#20 steveb

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 02:07 PM

Aren't the Indoor spars longer than stock Race Rods spars?
I cut down a set of original gold label Indoor Professional Use Only spare a few years ago and I seem to remember them being a few inches longer than the stock Rev 1.5 spars.

Side note: my old Professional Use Only Indoor spars are .248" OD at the built-up end, .235" in the middle and .195" ID. and weigh about 9 grams once cut down to the stock Rev 1.5 length.




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