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How do you pre-stretch linesets?


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#1 AldenMiler

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:17 AM

I just ordered some Laser Pro Gold in bulk so I can make up some line sets. What I was wondering is how do you pre-stretch the lines before making them into sets? Or do you just make the line set and then let the kite stretch them?

-Alden
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#2 Jeepster

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:36 AM

Here's how I stretched my first sets:

1) Sleeved one end of the bulk roll
2) Measured out four times the length of the line set plus four times the length of my sleeving
3) Cut the bulk line and sleeved the new end
4) Then hooked both sleeved ends to a large SLK stake and stretched the line out so that it was doubled
5) Then proceeded to tug on the doubled over lines at the end of the loop ... I tugged quite hard
(the breaking strength for 90# line with a sleeved knot is about 60# and the line is doubled, so 120# should be your limit)
6) Then I cut the line at the loop and sleeved the two cut ends
7) Hooked the four sleeved ends to the SLK stake and stretched both lines out so that they were doubled
8) Repeated the tugging on each loop
9) Cut both loops and sleeved the four new cut ends so that the final length was correct
10) Hooked the lines to a kite and went flying

Actually it was easier to do than to explain. I think that the tugging is more important than a steady pull. Even after doing this, the lines will stretch in use ... the winds here in the mid-west are more gusty than steady.

With winter here, I'll have to move indoors for the next line set. Will probably have to come up with something besides a SLK stake ... don't think it'll work on a gym floor.

Cheers,
Tom

#3 MrDenny

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:51 AM

Here's how I stretched my first sets:

1) Sleeved one end of the bulk roll
2) Measured out four times the length of the line set plus four times the length of my sleeving
3) Cut the bulk line and sleeved the new end
4) Then hooked both sleeved ends to a large SLK stake and stretched the line out so that it was doubled
5) Then proceeded to tug on the doubled over lines at the end of the loop ... I tugged quite hard

6) Then I cut the line at the loop and sleeved the two cut ends
7) Hooked the four sleeved ends to the SLK and stretched both lines out so that they were doubled
8) Repeated the tugging on each loop
9) Cut both loops and sleeved the four new cut ends



I have never felt the need to pre-stretch LPG but I've heard of a great way to do it. Just use it to fly a strong pulling single line kite for a few hours, before you cut it up of course.

Denny #12

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#4 Jeepster

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:10 AM

I have never felt the need to pre-stretch LPG ...


What has your experience been with building/flying linesets with no pre stretch?

I've wondered if building linesets with no pre stretch would work okay. If the line stretches uniformly over it's entire length, then the top and bottom line pairs should stay reasonably even during the initial flights. Reversing the top and bottom pairs periodically should keep all of them close enough for most folks. My first lineset was a commercially produced product and it ended up with the top lines about 3" longer than the bottoms after several flights.

Cheers,
Tom

#5 Watty

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:30 AM

I just ordered some Laser Pro Gold in bulk so I can make up some line sets. What I was wondering is how do you pre-stretch the lines before making them into sets? Or do you just make the line set and then let the kite stretch them?

-Alden


The way I do it, is I first just make up the line set, then I hook one end of every line to a ground stake. Slip the other ends onto your fingers, and pull on each line evenly (it works best to do them all at once).

The reason to do this is because all line has a tendency to stretch. LPG even stretches a little, but it usually stretches a little, then hardly ever again. If you just fly out the lines to stretch them, the load on the kite is not even for each line. This will cause the line set to stretch unevenly, then you need to adjust your lines. If you just stretch it once at the beginning, you don't need to worry about it.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#6 MrDenny

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:35 AM

Around this time each year I will take out all the line sets and even them up. I have seldom found anything out more than a full inch . If I sleeve a line set I try to leave a small bit of line sticking out the back side of the sleeve. I can then untie the sleeve and pull the line through to even things out. You do have to go to the shortest line length this way but an inch a year is OK with me. To be honest when I'm done I'm not good enough to tell the difference.
I always wonder if I didn't do this, would the shorter lines just stretch back to even?

Denny #12

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#7 Sailor99

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:37 AM

I just fly them in with just one knot tied in the sleeving. That way it is child's play to re-adjust. The top lines get a bit more stetched than the bottom, but that has always been OK because thats the way I like them.

It may not be scientific, but then again your hands can adjust to a remarkable amount of inequality once you have got past the newbie stage. [flame suit on]IMHO way too much is made of line equalising
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#8 Jeepster

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:43 AM

... you have got past the newbie stage ...


OFF TOPIC ALERT

Okay, I can recognize an expert and a real newbie easily enough. But, what are the in between stages and how do you recognize them.

Puzzled,
Tom

EDIT ... let me start a new thread with that as it's topic.

#9 big bri

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:20 AM

I just fly them in with just one knot tied in the sleeving. That way it is child's play to re-adjust. The top lines get a bit more stetched than the bottom, but that has always been OK because thats the way I like them.

It may not be scientific, but then again your hands can adjust to a remarkable amount of inequality once you have got past the newbie stage. [flame suit on]IMHO way too much is made of line equalising

Im with Sailor now.I used to get all hung up about being 3mm out.LPG is good kit.It will CREEP a little,but when ive made my lines up to a required length.I used to then stretch them all out for a while.
Now i just fly with them and swop them after a good heavy wind session.

BRIAN...

#10 quaa714

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:33 AM

What are people's thoughts on sleeved vs non sleeved lines.

I've become a fan of non-sleeved lately if only because I've found that the sleeving material, over time bunches up and gets thready, no matter who makes the line sets.

Thoughts???????

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#11 Jeepster

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:51 AM

What are people's thoughts on sleeved vs non sleeved lines.

I've become a fan of non-sleeved lately if only because I've found that the sleeving material, over time bunches up and gets thready, no matter who makes the line sets.

Thoughts???????


That question is a borderline religious question with a couple of the folks in IKE ...

The sleeving helps to reduce the affect that knots have on the breaking strength of lines. This quote is from the kites.org/Fantastic website:

Sleeving is a hollow tubular braided line that you put onto the ends of spectra or kevlarŪ lines to reduce wear and increase the strength of the knotted line. It improves the strength of knotted spectra from 45% to 65% and of KevlarŪ from 60% to 98%.

The above numbers yields these results: with sleeving 90# line should be good to 58.5# of pull before breaking ... without sleeving it should only be good to 45#. Thus, if you never need more than 45# of strength per line, you can safely fly without sleeving.

My fingers are just too big to consistently remove the larks head knots with the non-sleeved 90# line ... the sleeving makes it easier. Some folks flyers even tie simple overhand knots at the sleeving loops to provide a tab to undo the larks head knots when the weather is cold.

I attend the church of sleeving because it is cheap and easily replaced, helps with the line strength and helps with removing the larks head knots.

Cheers,
Tom

#12 jsking

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:31 AM

What are people's thoughts on sleeved vs non sleeved lines.

I've become a fan of non-sleeved lately if only because I've found that the sleeving material, over time bunches up and gets thready, no matter who makes the line sets.

Thoughts???????


I prefer sleeving on most of my linesets. If it's 90# or above, I like them sleeved; but I don't sleeve 50# lines. My 50# linesets are for light wind or indoor use--sleeving is less important (IMO) in these circumstances and I don't want even that extra little bit of weight and/or drag.
Jeff
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http://www.flickr.co...44623@N00/sets/

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#13 jsking

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:39 AM

I haven't pre-stretched lines yet, but I did read about someone who used a fish scale to apply specific force to lines when stretching them. I thought that was a nifty idea and hope to do the same when I get back to making line sets (soon, I hope).

Here's the thread:

http://www.revkites....h...ic=1094&hl=
Jeff
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#14 Jim Foster

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:51 AM

When I make line sets from LPG, (and I have to make two at a time, one for me and one for Lynn) I sleeve one end of the first line. Stake the sleeved end, unroll to the length I want, and give it a good pull, (you'll feel some stretch come out) then cut and sleeve to length. Sleeve end of the next line, unroll, give it a good pull and sleeve to the length of the first line. I do each line the same way, always sleeve to the length of the first line. After a few flights in heavy wind, I adjust as necessary, which usually isn't much at all.

Works for us.
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#15 melnsct

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:51 AM

Silly, Alden!!!!
You already know the true method for stretching linesets!!!
1. Make up your lineset about 4" longer than desred finished length with the sleeving only on one end.
2. Have Antman use the lines for flying his Blast stack.
3. Switch tops to bottoms and bottoms to tops.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Clip off non sleeved loop and sleeve line to desired length.
(You can substitute your 2~4 if Antman is busy flying his pink pro series)
Melanie in Tennessee
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#16 AldenMiler

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:10 AM

Cool, thanks everyone!

I guess I'll get the line sometime next week. Then I'll have to stay late at work so I can lay the lines out where it isn't cold and windy...

-Alden
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#17 awindofchange

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 01:27 PM

Here's a photo of how Peter Lynn stretches his 1500 lb spectra line. :)

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#18 FortFlyer

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 03:26 PM

What are people's thoughts on sleeved vs non sleeved lines.

I've become a fan of non-sleeved lately if only because I've found that the sleeving material, over time bunches up and gets thready, no matter who makes the line sets.

Thoughts???????



No problems here with non sleeved never had a knot break less snag points as long as you double loop a pick knot on the end and tighten real well getting them off the handles and kites are no problem.

I've used 90# sleeveless on my speed series and my power blast in 20 mph wind and broke a downspar from holding the kite back and still the lines were fine.

Sleeved lines to me are probably so because they are easier to handle so whatever your comfortable with is what you should do, After all its your stuff and you use it.
Jim,
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#19 jay

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:24 PM

The sleeving is more to stop slippage at the knots.
Spectra is very slippery stuff and if the knots are not tied right they will slip easily.
Tight Lines
Jade



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#20 antman

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 05:59 PM

Silly, Alden!!!!
You already know the true method for stretching linesets!!!
1. Make up your lineset about 4" longer than desred finished length with the sleeving only on one end.
2. Have Antman use the lines for flying his Blast stack.
3. Switch tops to bottoms and bottoms to tops.
4. Repeat step 2.
5. Clip off non sleeved loop and sleeve line to desired length.
(You can substitute your 2~4 if Antman is busy flying his pink pro series)
Melanie in Tennessee

well mel i gotta say thats one good way i guess :blue-confused: i dont have the pink pro series but im sure im gonna get one in the mail if all of your guys and girls get your way :kid_smartass: as for the line stretching when i make a set i sleeve 4 ends on both sides. tie them to the handles and lean back with all my weight for a few minutes at a time .. now keep in mind im not a skinny guy so this works for me :kid_devlish: in time your lines will stretch a little but not as much as if you didnt pre stretch them at all.if you do this make sure you have a good piece of ground and you ball stake is all the way in the ground so you dont bend it or pop it out of the ground and fall on your tail
GOD PUT ME HERE. TO ENJOY THE WINDS




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