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Vertical Hover with Heavy Brakes?


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#1 lasapcheong

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 07:37 PM

Hi,

Recent topics with heavy brakes got me thinking. I've gradually grown to like a dose of brake in my tuning. However I typically set it to the 2nd or 3rd knot on the top leader on my B-Series handle when flying. Turns are crispier, axels and flic flacs easier, the stop and go moves (e.g. dive stop) are better and inverted hovers are easier as well.

However one drawback I've experienced is that vertical hovers, leading edge pointing up is very difficult low to the ground. The heavier I go on the brakes, the higher is the neutral position I can hover with the leading edge pointing up. Believe me I've went all out and tried some wrist acrobatics to get a nice stable vertical hover but its a lot of work! :blue-confused: This is affecting me in other aspects, such as clockticks, tip pivots low to the ground. I always tend to avoid vertical hovers and hovered for a while before quickly moving on but its kinda bugging me.

Wondering if its a case with my technique, such that a different technique is required for that, or is it something that you have to tradeoff for the rest of the benefits gained?

Thanks
Darryl

#2 Guest_QuadQrazy_*

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:01 PM

Try these links.

http://www.revkites....main/Techniques

How To Fly Revolution Quad
http://www.gwtw-kite...books/books.htm

#3 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:03 PM

I've found that there is some trade off, but that a lot of times, you will adjust to nearly any setting given enough patience and practice... On my team, If the wind is light enough that we're struggling with an upright hover (on any setting), we simply don't do it... The benefits in nearly all other aspects well outweigh making my upright stops a little more more brief. ;)

imho

John Barresi

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#4 lasapcheong

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:33 PM

I've found that there is some trade off, but that a lot of times, you will adjust to nearly any setting given enough patience and practice... On my team, If the wind is light enough that we're struggling with an upright hover (on any setting), we simply don't do it... The benefits in nearly all other aspects well outweigh making my upright stops a little more more brief. ;)

imho


Thanks John that pretty much explains it. Just for reference, what are the typical brake settings you or iQuad uses on the STD and VTD B-Series? 2nd - 3rd knot from the top leader is what I typically use on both of mine. I"m still trying to figure out when and why I would want to jump in between the knots, wind speed or other factors, or should I use different settings between a STD and VTD.

-Darryl

#5 Baloo

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:53 PM

Hi Darryl,

Just wondering if you are talking standard B type leaders or have you gone to tying your own leaders yet.

I think you will find whn a lot of folks are talking about "Heavy Brakes" thet mean they have tied thier own longer leaders. I think John might be meaning 9" as opposed to he more standard B which I think is about 7" (I stan to be corrected on that) I have made my own leaders up and the top ones are now the same length as my B handles.

Still not used the "far out" MAXIMUM loads of brake yet though.

#6 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:01 PM

iQuad's top leaders are about one inch longer than what comes with the B-Series... We typically fly on the last knot, or 2nd to last knot on these longer leaders. ;)

We've also tied another knot on the bottom leaders, right up to the handle, for a little extra if we want it (rarely used).

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#7 lasapcheong

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:12 PM

Hi Darryl,

Just wondering if you are talking standard B type leaders or have you gone to tying your own leaders yet.

I think you will find whn a lot of folks are talking about "Heavy Brakes" thet mean they have tied thier own longer leaders. I think John might be meaning 9" as opposed to he more standard B which I think is about 7" (I stan to be corrected on that) I have made my own leaders up and the top ones are now the same length as my B handles.

Still not used the "far out" MAXIMUM loads of brake yet though.


Mine is all stock B-Series handles with the pre-adjustment knots and I didn't add any more..I tried the very last knot to the extreme and didn't really clicked with it so I have the 2nd - 3rd knots for now..Maybe in the future when I really understood and gained a better appreciation with better technique to boot maybe I'll try that..Vertical Hovers that can go low enough for my preference are quite an important thing I'd like to keep so I'll just stick with that for now I guess..

Thanks John for your insight.

-Darryl

#8 Sailor99

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 02:03 AM

We've also tied another knot on the bottom leaders, right up to the handle, for a little extra if we want it (rarely used).



... and you can add another knot on the brake attachment on the bridle if you want a little more still!

Just one word of warning. In use, your top lines will often tend to stretch a tad more than the bottom ones, which of course gives you extra brake naturally. Some (by which you can read me) don't bother to adjust their lines to take this discrepancy out, and as such do not necessarily use the last knot on the top of the handles (my top lines are about 2" longer than the bottoms these days). The point being, don't necessarily follow recommendations slavishly, but use them as suggestions to experiment with and find your own preference. I find the key to all the settings is to keep on experimenting - what was right a few months ago may have changed as your flying has developed. For me this was definitely the case as I went from very little brake as a beginner, to lots of brake as a novice and now a little (note little) less brake as an improver.
Over - Jeremy

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#9 REVflyer

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 03:47 AM

try moving your grip position on the handles when moments of "big" down or forward drive are necessary.

For example, I use leader lengths determined by the overall handle size. To me the longer the top leaders are, the further out I can grab for throws and catches. The determining factor is how far away are your bottom attachment points? You don't want the top leaders to be so long that they occasionally catch on the bottoms. So long throw handles will have longer leaders.

That means I might need more down occasionally. By re-gripping lower on the handle foam I can effectively change the handle's pivot point and grab more DOWN for periods of back-up better, several inches worth depending on your handle's overall length. Say you wanted to fly a square, with the leading edge in the same position for the entire figure.

Typically I grip very high on the handles, balanced on my index finger as the pivot point. For more down in the figure above, I'll grip so low that my baby finger is below the bottom of the foam grip. You'll notice I didn't make any permanent changes to the tuning, but can get more forward or reverse drive by re-gripping.

try this yourself and see if you also benefit.
-paul




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