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How much brake is too much?


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#1 Martyjuggles

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 04:04 AM

I'm currently flying my 1.5 vented rev on 15" handles which i absolutely love for the amount of control i now have compared to my old 10" handles. I've added some 6" pigtails to the top which gives me better control with the brakes for reverse, flight, inverted hovers etc. However, i'm finding that even in lighter winds i'm favouring the maximum brake this will allow, as i then get more lift inverted - sometimes this means i have to tug a bit more to gain height with the kite the right way up but it feels better this way.

So i guess my question is, should i extend the top pigtails to get even more adjustment from the brakes and if so how long can i go with 15" handles? As i said i currently fly all out on 6" pigtails on the top and the bottom lines are usually on a knot 1" from the handle on the bottom.

Thanks for any help

Marty B)
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#2 bartman

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:35 AM

I'm currently flying my 1.5 vented rev on 15" handles which i absolutely love for the amount of control i now have compared to my old 10" handles. I've added some 6" pigtails to the top which gives me better control with the brakes for reverse, flight, inverted hovers etc. However, i'm finding that even in lighter winds i'm favouring the maximum brake this will allow, as i then get more lift inverted - sometimes this means i have to tug a bit more to gain height with the kite the right way up but it feels better this way.

So i guess my question is, should i extend the top pigtails to get even more adjustment from the brakes and if so how long can i go with 15" handles? As i said i currently fly all out on 6" pigtails on the top and the bottom lines are usually on a knot 1" from the handle on the bottom.

Thanks for any help

Marty B)


I can't answer this, but I will concur that lately I'm finding a lot of brake to be way better. I can't recall which thread it was on where John talks about brake and light winds, but it made perfect sense and works well. Is a bit harder launching though if the wind gets too light.

Bart

#3 Aerochic

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:59 AM

So i guess my question is, should i extend the top pigtails to get even more adjustment from the brakes and if so how long can i go with 15" handles? As i said i currently fly all out on 6" pigtails on the top and the bottom lines are usually on a knot 1" from the handle on the bottom.


I might be oversimplifying here but if you're looking for more break, how about making your top leaders 10". Seems like all of the hardcore fliers that I know have ultra long top leaders with the 15" handles.

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#4 Sailor99

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:29 AM

For me the answer is to add more and more brake until it is really hard to take off the right way up. At that point there is too much brake for my preference, so I take one off. The setting can vary in different winds with many people (me included) preferring more brake in stronger winds and less in the light stuff - but probably only a little difference. However, completely contrary to this JB (and I believe iQuad generally) like to keep the brake on in light wind as it creates a sail trimmed/sheeted harder on the wind and therefore give you something to 'pull against' - of course ISTBC by any of the iQuad guys if I have misinterpreted what they were saying.
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#5 Watty

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:48 AM

I'm currently flying my 1.5 vented rev on 15" handles which i absolutely love for the amount of control i now have compared to my old 10" handles. I've added some 6" pigtails to the top which gives me better control with the brakes for reverse, flight, inverted hovers etc. However, i'm finding that even in lighter winds i'm favouring the maximum brake this will allow, as i then get more lift inverted - sometimes this means i have to tug a bit more to gain height with the kite the right way up but it feels better this way.

So i guess my question is, should i extend the top pigtails to get even more adjustment from the brakes and if so how long can i go with 15" handles? As i said i currently fly all out on 6" pigtails on the top and the bottom lines are usually on a knot 1" from the handle on the bottom.

Thanks for any help

Marty B)



Honestly, your description sounds just right. In light winds, with a food amount of brake on, it should be difficult to get a good normal launch. I am told that I fly with lots of bake, but I tend to stick with my b-Series handles in all conditions, and with all kites.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#6 steveb

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:25 AM

Longer handles require longer pigtails.
I'm running 13" top and 3" bottom pigtails on my 17" Titanium handles.

#7 Jim Foster

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:40 AM

Lynn and I fly with a nearly "neutral" adjustment. If we can launch, fly forward at max speed, "dive stop" at max speed then reverse upward, that's right for us. We learned this "neutral setting" several years ago from Mark Lummas.

We fly for fairly long periods without stopping, sometimes up to two hours or more. If we don't use the "neutral" adjustment, our (older than most) wrists get very tired, especially in higher wind.

I have tried to fly Watty's kite with his adjustment, and he has tried to fly mine. Neither of us could fly the other's kite very well, but have no trouble with our own.

Sometimes in lighter wind we do take up one knot on the upper lines.

Bottom line.........find what is comfortable for you and fly. Don't make yourself crazy trying to do what someone else does unless it works for you.
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#8 steveb

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 09:49 AM

It's all relative too; especially if you're comparing lines that aren't equalized.
If the top lines stretch relative to the brake lines, they might be a few inches longer and that will require a different pigtail setting than an equalized set.
Like Jim says though, go with what feels comfortable and right.

#9 Martyjuggles

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:42 AM

Thanks everyone sounds like i'm about right 'cos it feels right most of the time but am going to add longer top pigtails for when i want more brake as i'm working with 15" handles.

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#10 Watty

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 08:58 PM

Lynn and I fly with a nearly "neutral" adjustment. If we can launch, fly forward at max speed, "dive stop" at max speed then reverse upward, that's right for us. We learned this "neutral setting" several years ago from Mark Lummas.

We fly for fairly long periods without stopping, sometimes up to two hours or more. If we don't use the "neutral" adjustment, our (older than most) wrists get very tired, especially in higher wind.

I have tried to fly Watty's kite with his adjustment, and he has tried to fly mine. Neither of us could fly the other's kite very well, but have no trouble with our own.

Sometimes in lighter wind we do take up one knot on the upper lines.

Bottom line.........find what is comfortable for you and fly. Don't make yourself crazy trying to do what someone else does unless it works for you.


A thing to remember though, is that a big part of it is just the way a person holds the handles. From what I remember, you tend to have your hands quite low on the handles, while when I fly, my index finger is occasionally touching the metal triangle at the top of the handles.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#11 Baloo

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:04 PM

Just make up some top leaders as long as you dare (mine are as long as my B handles).

Then try them out till you know the most brake you will ever use.

Trim em down to that setting.

And HEY PRESTO you have found out how much is too much one 15" handles, and made a set of neat leaders which are "just right for you" and I do emphasise JUST RIGHT FOR YOU.

Have a go, you know you want to!!

#12 Choccy

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 12:16 AM

i'm favouring the maximum brake this will allow, as i then get more lift inverted -
sometimes this means i have to tug a bit more to gain height with the kite the right way up but it feels better this way.

Hello Marty,
I feel the same, I'd rather compromise on my forward drive and get 'nicer' results with the inverted lift.
Hope you have fun with your leader experiments.

Having said that and everyone does have their own preference, what about those of you in team situation ?
Do you find having different brake setup a challenge to getting your team flying synchronised OK ?

I just cannot get my forward momentum going despite bringing the upper in by another knot
because I daren't give up my 'more brake' for the inverted stuff (too wobbly). Does that make any sense ?

Hardest for me is like a situation yesterday, in team when the wind picked up....
I just couldn't match the boys forward ball burst speed (mostly through 'fear' of being dragged up the muddy field) :blushing: :lol:
So you see I am reluctant to move my upper line to an even closer knot because the wind will pick me up. :dizzy:

I realise venteds are 'slower' than full sails.

I've tried moving my hands down the handles to help with the strong wind.

still looking for help on this.

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#13 Watty

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 07:23 AM

Just make up some top leaders as long as you dare (mine are as long as my B handles).

Then try them out till you know the most brake you will ever use.

Trim em down to that setting.

And HEY PRESTO you have found out how much is too much one 15" handles, and made a set of neat leaders which are "just right for you" and I do emphasise JUST RIGHT FOR YOU.

Have a go, you know you want to!!


Definitely trim them down once you are done. If you don't, there will be extra line with knots hanging down, and the lines can easily get caught on them.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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