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Leader adjustment?


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#1 deebs1596

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 10:44 PM

i finally got around to typing new leaders for my 13' handles and sat there today finding the settings thatworked the best and i think i can say that ive found the "butter zone" for me:
-uppers all out, brakes all in for high wind
-uppers all in, brakes all out for light days
-uppers all out, brakes in 1 of 3 knots for all days in between give or take a little dependant on wind


i added an extra 2 knots to all of the leaders on the 13's i use regularly so i could have a marginal degree of adjustment. each knot is about 1 inch apart...does that sound like an alright set up?

sometimes i notice that i have to adjust my flying style (more precise or more wild per-se) is this normal?
i notice that im not as precise as i'd like to be but i'm hoping practice will help...but i'm open to any pointers anyone might be willing to offer
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 11:16 PM

Sounds like to me your set-up is good, and 1" between pigtails sounds like a winner, some like 1/2", and others like 1/8".

I would try 15" handles thay will give you more control, and thats what I use, and the kite is way more "alive", and in control.

Also on short lines your responce has to be quicker, than on longer lines, and I fly both 85', and 120',
and 85' lines in a good wind will help you learn control.

Pratice, and try new things, with wind, and lines, and have fun, thats what it is all about.

#3 Sailor99

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 11:22 PM

you may want to experiment with much more brake in light wind. A sail that is flat to the wind gives you much more 'feel' when you pull it to give it drive. But like all things in this game, if the settings work for you then they are right.
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#4 deebs1596

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:55 PM

usually i fly on 85' and if the wind is light ill go to my 30' set, need to order some sleeving for the 50' set.
i notice that i have trouble sliding so thats something i was focusing on today,so we'll see how it progresses from here.
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

#5 Kitelife

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 07:59 PM

It all comes down to taste/preference of course, but using heavy forward in light wind is counterproductive, imho.

It gives the sense of easy lift off, sure... But it also sheets off all your sail pressure, and makes the kite prone to fluttering out, and makes it far more difficult to gain ground (fly-away) since the brakes are so weak.

The whole iQuad team uses roughly comparable brake in light or high wind, perhaps one more knot of brake in extreme high winds.

Venteds also will generally need one more knot of forward tuning, compared to the standards, just a touch more lift.

John Barresi

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#6 bartman

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 08:07 PM

It all comes down to taste/preference of course, but using heavy forward in light wind is counterproductive, imho.

It gives the sense of easy lift off, sure... But it also sheets off all your sail pressure, and makes the kite prone to fluttering out, and makes it far more difficult to gain ground (fly-away) since the brakes are so weak.

The whole iQuad team uses roughly comparable brake in light or high wind, perhaps one more knot of brake in extreme high winds.

Venteds also will generally need one more knot of forward tuning, compared to the standards, just a touch more lift.


This may explain why I had problems in lighter wind with the "fluttering out" when first starting with the B. After this past June when Bazzer told me to put my top lines all the way out for most flying I started to do that almost all the time. It took a bit of getting used to on the launch part of it, but the fluttering out has been reduced to just about zero. Lately I have been pretty much max brakes with very little experimenting with the line position and have been having much better success rates. I hadn't thought of the sail pressure bleeding off more in light winds with that large angle created by backing off the brakes. Learnng something new every day now it seems.

Bart

#7 deebs1596

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 08:13 PM

looking back at my post i didnt specify what i ment by light wind... light wind here is those days that the kite is barely staying up on race rods. usually i use brakes in 1 knot.

and high wind here is winds of 25-30 mph-ish. usually if its windyier than that and ill throw up an airfoil

Keep in mind im using these settings with a 20th anni 1.5 and an EXP.
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

#8 REVflyer

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 05:32 AM

imagine the sail was a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood. If you stood it up directly facing the wind it would have the most pressure. The more you lean it towards or away from that position, the more pressure is bled off either the top or the bottom of the sail.

So, in really high wind you'd want too much DOWN,
so the excess pressure bleeds off the leading edge (the sail never can get square to the wind or fully powered up!)

In real low wind you'd want a little less DOWN, but still remembering to keep your plywood square or you'll not be capturing all the slight wind, meaning you'll have to "be the wind" yourself with hands, arms and legs.

Think about what your objective is with the tuning. Most of the time my solution is to add DOWN and insure the lines are all equal whenever I'm helping folks out.

More "Down" is available temporarily too, if you just change your grip on the handles. Instead of your usual, comfortable position, grip lower. (I fly with my hands gripping very high on the handles, balanced on the index finger and held so loosely that I couldn't crush a raw egg) For a temporary dose of DOWN I'll move my hands lower, to the bottom of the foam. My littlest finger will grip there. Now the angle of rotation has been lowered and I've effectively shortened my bottom leaders by several inches. When I want to snap forward powerfully again, I just slip my hands back to the normal position.

As you gain more experience, you'll find moving your grip on the handle to be quite unconscious.
As always, your mileage may vary!
-paul

#9 quaa714

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 05:03 AM

imagine the sail was a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood. If you stood it up directly facing the wind it would have the most pressure. The more you lean it towards or away from that position, the more pressure is bled off either the top or the bottom of the sail.

So, in really high wind you'd want too much DOWN,
so the excess pressure bleeds off the leading edge (the sail never can get square to the wind or fully powered up!)

In real low wind you'd want a little less DOWN, but still remembering to keep your plywood square or you'll not be capturing all the slight wind, meaning you'll have to "be the wind" yourself with hands, arms and legs.

Think about what your objective is with the tuning. Most of the time my solution is to add DOWN and insure the lines are all equal whenever I'm helping folks out.

More "Down" is available temporarily too, if you just change your grip on the handles. Instead of your usual, comfortable position, grip lower. (I fly with my hands gripping very high on the handles, balanced on the index finger and held so loosely that I couldn't crush a raw egg) For a temporary dose of DOWN I'll move my hands lower, to the bottom of the foam. My littlest finger will grip there. Now the angle of rotation has been lowered and I've effectively shortened my bottom leaders by several inches. When I want to snap forward powerfully again, I just slip my hands back to the normal position.

As you gain more experience, you'll find moving your grip on the handle to be quite unconscious.
As always, your mileage may vary!
-paul


Paul, your 4x8 plywood description is excellent as is the lower handle grip in light wind for temp down.

I'd just like to add that when I last flew with Bazzer he mentioned less manhandling of the foam and in place use the first three fingers for sensitivity flying. Index finger for forward control, middle for nuetral/balance, third for reverse. Took a while to grasp the idea but what a difference, Especially when flying in reverse or inverted...

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#10 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 12:48 PM

The 3-finger tension method is something I came up with earlier in the year, seems to be providing a easier perspective for people on how the controls work when your tuning is balanced. ;)

The idea is simply to apply control in more measured amounts (with the fingers), instead of tweaking the entire handle, which provides much more potential variable (error) in your control.

John Barresi

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#11 quaa714

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 01:37 PM

The 3-finger tension method is something I came up with earlier in the year, seems to be providing a easier perspective for people on how the controls work when your tuning is balanced. ;)

The idea is simply to apply control in more measured amounts (with the fingers), instead of tweaking the entire handle, which provides much more potential variable (error) in your control.

Credit where credit is due!!!!
Was out practicing "the touch" for a few hours today......What a huge difference!!!

"Cya in the Sand!....."

"Slack lines are fine lines!"


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" BD
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain" BM
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#12 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 02:18 PM

The other benefit to this technique, when you pull back hard with both hands to create drive, the controls don't tend to swing as wildly, giving you a more stable rush of power in the sail. ;)

John Barresi

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#13 Guest_QuadQrazy_*

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:40 PM

The 3-finger tension method is something I came up with earlier in the year, seems to be providing a easier perspective for people on how the controls work when your tuning is balanced. ;)



3-finger tension :confused!:

This includes the thumb ....right :confused!:

I know the thumb is not a finger, but nobody has a kiting for dummys book in print.

#14 deebs1596

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:58 PM

yea i was curious to this as well; when i heard 3 finger i thought thumb but then as i thought about it, i got thinking maybe no thumb...now i'm confused :kid_frustrated:
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

#15 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:05 PM

Index, middle and ring fingers... Using those 3 for forward/reverse, thumbs simply give leverage and grip on the handles.

This technique is assuming you've got all your fingers (except the thumb) on the foam. ;)

John Barresi

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#16 Guest_QuadQrazy_*

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 10:46 PM

This technique is assuming you've got all your fingers (except the thumb) on the foam. ;)


This is easy, and what I thought would be the answer ( just say pinkys out) like drinking from a small cup of tea. :crazy:

#17 Kitelife

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 11:03 PM

Speaking strictly to this style... After a spell, your pinkies should relax onto the foam as well, but not be heavily involved, except for leverage (like the thumbs).

John Barresi

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#18 deebs1596

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:26 AM

ohh ok. i may have a hard time adjusting to this as i usually fly with index fingers on the metal above the foam near the triangle clips...another day another technique to try ^_^
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

#19 REVflyer

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:57 AM

Mike Van Meers occasionally creates wooden handles that have finger grooves (like a pistol grip). Those are killer and it's much easier to rock on different digits, more comfortable, more control. I surely would like to get a set of these darn things,... I've been chasing them for probably a decade. If anyone wants to let a set of these go, I can be exploited to a very high dollar figure. I'm sick of waiting!

#20 jburka

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:36 AM

Mike Van Meers occasionally creates wooden handles that have finger grooves (like a pistol grip). Those are killer and it's much easier to rock on different digits, more comfortable, more control. I surely would like to get a set of these darn things,... I've been chasing them for probably a decade. If anyone wants to let a set of these go, I can be exploited to a very high dollar figure. I'm sick of waiting!


Gee, Paul, I'd love to give you my set, but you'd just look silly flying on handles with the name "jeffy" stamped into them!

<grin>

(to make you feel even worse, almost all of the sets Mikey made Back When were of standard I size; my set is extended...roughly B-sized)

I've been meaning for years to have Mike put a groove on the back side of the handles for my pinkies...for some odd reason I like to hold the handles with my pinkies on the back, but I never get around to it...and then I'd just run into the problem you have with Mike not finding the time!




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