56 replies to this topic

[deebs1596]

well i broke down and ordereda set of race rods; but theres a problem...when i got them they came inside a blueish color signed kite! these rods work really well in the "unwanted" kite

[AldenMiler]

well i broke down and ordereda set of race rods; but theres a problem...when i got them they came inside a blueish color signed kite! these rods work really well in the "unwanted" kite

Ha Ha Ha! Their marketing plan is working perfectly. "Try it you'll like it", "Just one won't hurt you"...

Happened to me also, that's how I got my vented B.

-Alden

[deebs1596]

i'll eventually have to post pictures of it somewhere on the forum

[bartman]

Okay, so now I am reading that I might as well save the money on the race rods because they really are best for just low wind and vented sail, but unless one already has a decent enough amount of experience they will make little to no difference in how the kite will handle.

Buy or not buy considering my limited experience and overall time to fly?

Bart

[Bazzer]

Okay, so now I am reading that I might as well save the money on the race rods because they really are best for just low wind and vented sail, but unless one already has a decent enough amount of experience they will make little to no difference in how the kite will handle.

Buy or not buy considering my limited experience and overall time to fly?

Bart

Race is where it's at Bart,
Great feel and response. We run them all the time where possible in iQuad.
When i was first starting I couldn't fly inverted for the life of me. After flying 10 mins on race I could. Maybe it was just coincidence and that day was the day it all clicked? who knows. All I know was at that time even I could feel the difference.
I think you will too
Bazzer

[Baloo]

After reading Bazzer's post the sillyness below popped into my mind. Goodness I am in a silly mood today.

So OK, we have a proposer and a seconder, can we now vote ont the proposition that Bartman should get a set of race rods.

All those in favour could you please show your vote by saying EYE (s). (mines a green one please)

[Aerochic]

but unless one already has a decent enough amount of experience they will make little to no difference in how the kite will handle.

Bart I was still struggling with learning my Rev (on 3 wraps) until I bought a set of Race Rods. They made ALL the difference for me and I am by no means an expert flier. I fly them with and without vents. Everything responds soooo much better with the Races in and I've learned so much more. I generally fly in low to gusty inland winds that change at any given second.

Baloo: EYE!!!!!

[MrDenny]

All of the comparisons seem to be with the race rods vs. the 3 wrap or even the SLE . I would like to see what folks say when talking about the difference in the race and the 2 wrap. I like the 2 wraps a ton but the main reason I use the race rods now is that keep the same feel from the smallest breeze up to 15 and I don't have to change out the 2 wrap and 3 wrap all the time.

[Sailor99]

I would like to see what folks say when talking about the difference in the race and the 2 wrap. I like the 2 wraps a ton but the main reason I use the race rods now is that keep the same feel from the smallest breeze up to 15 and I don't have to change out the 2 wrap and 3 wrap all the time.

I hear what you say about not having to do the 2/3W change - a big advantage. But the RR's beat the 2W hands down again IMHO. They are still more responsive and fast. To be honest, all my 2W and 3W are pretty much redundant now. I only save them for when I am practicing something new that is likely to have me hitting the ground or, more likely, other kites a lot.

Trying to compare any 1/4 rod, including the RR, to a SLE is like trying to compare a Bugatti Veyron to a Chevy Silverado. I can see a role for SLE's for teaching newbies in mega winds (Above 30 knots) and for staking the tomatoes but beyond those uses nothing comes to mind (sorrry Ben!).

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

I am confused about the physics that is being suggested. The implication is that the race rod flexes similarly to an SUL but returns to straight 'un-flexed' more quickly. It is lighter than the Ultral-light as well. The flexing of the spars spill air as I understand it.

I would be interested to learn how this has been 'bench tested'.

I very much liked flying the 1.5B the other weekend in very low breeze on 120ft 90lb LPG but did not have the opportunity for comparison testing.

In a heavy wind I do not think that I want the kite to flex at all as it adds another variable but maybe that is because I have spent time on the smaller speed series kites and am comfortable with the more rigid format.

Felix

Hi Felix,

I’m sorry it’s taken me a while to get back to you on this one I have not been well and have thought it best to stay away from the PC for a while. I think I am pretty much with Jim (Fort Flyer) when he says, “I think you guys are starting to get too scientific here, All thats required to fly a Rev is lots of practice and learning how to feel how the kite works.” Though if things don’t feel as I would expect them to, I do tend to try and analyse the situation and look for some sort of explanation.

Next to you I am a relative newbie, I bought my first Rev in the summer of 2005, a 1.5sle, on the advice of Gary (play365) and within a few weeks had bought a second hand vented sail and was switching the one frame between the two sails according to the conditions. Then one particularly calm Sunday afternoon when I had nothing to fly Gary loaned me an old homemade sul and I was blown away, (excuse the pun, especially in such low wind), I just loved the way it handled and it wasn’t long before I had ordered my own sul and vented to match the std sle I already owned. I stuck with the ½ inch leading edges because flyers far more experienced than I, said that they were better, but in the right conditions I have to say that, the sul was, and still is, my favoured kite. So when I began to hear that experienced flyers were starting to rethink the SLE it was a no brainer for me, I went shopping for more ¼” spars and the SLEs were consigned to the bag for all but the most extreme conditions.

It was a completely different situation with the Race Rods, to be honest I was extremely sceptical. I know Bazzer had been very impressed but we had been told right from the very start “they are not for everyone” and yet everyone had been singing their praises. I had taken, “they are not for everyone” as code for, “this is a subtle difference that only top flyers will have the skill to appreciate”. I certainly didn’t think had the skill to appreciate them and I suspected a lot of the excitement around them could probably have been put down to a “pack mentality”, “look I must be good I can appreciate the subtleties of these new rods”.

I first came across a Race Frame one very calm Sunday afternoon, I had been unable to keep a Pro Use framed sul in the air and so had reframed in P90. Yes, I know, it is way more sloppy than the Pro Use but it is lighter and the P90 was flying when the Pro Use wasn’t. Gary arrived with a Race Frame he had picked up at a festival on the Saturday and put it in a homemade Icarex sail he had. He was flying way better than I but, to be honest, I had put that down more to Gary’s greater skill and experience rather than the Race Frame. I think the jury was still out on this one but I think it is fair to say that Gary was cautiously impressed and before we packed up he offered me his kite to try. Within a few seconds I have to say, I was impressed with Gary’s setup. Where my P90 framed sul felt like a Rev bridled Lilo to fly, Gary’s Race Framed home made Icarex sail felt like a true Rev, though at this stage I was still more inclined to credit the success to the Icarex sail than the Race Frame. I think it is fair to say that Gary was a bit exasperated by my scepticism but we had several sail and frame changes before I was prepared to admit that there was something special about Race Rods.

I don’t think many of us on this forum have either the scientific knowledge or access to the equipment necessary to do a proper scientific comparison of the flex and recovery properties of spars but I recon that afternoon Gary and I got as close as two laymen need to do to decide what works well.

I think a quote from my post when I wrote this up first time may sum things up best.

I’m still not sure I understand the logic of this and to be honest I’m not even sure if I want to. We replaced our SLE’s for ¼ spars because they were more flexible and we loved it, now we are buying Race Spars because they are stiffer sounds like total madness but, hay, who cares, they work.

Having said all that, I recently had a conversation with a very respected Rev flyer who said that in really low wind he preferred Pro Use to Race Rods, so I think if it’s really calm again on a quiet Sunday afternoon I may be doing some more comparisons.

[Felix Mottram]

Hi Felix,

I'm sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you on this one I have not been well and have thought it best to stay away from the PC for a while.

<snip>

I don't think many of us on this forum have either the scientific knowledge or access to the equipment necessary to do a proper scientific comparison of the flex and recovery properties of spars but I recon that afternoon Gary and I got as close as two laymen need to do to decide what works well.

I think a quote from my post when I wrote this up first time may sum things up best.

Having said all that, I recently had a conversation with a very respected Rev flyer who said that in really low wind he preferred Pro Use to Race Rods, so I think if it's really calm again on a quiet Sunday afternoon I may be doing some more comparisons.

Sorry to hear you have been unwell. I hope you are fully recovered.

I certainly do not know the science <grins>

The more flexible spars spill more air if you attempt to 'drive' the kite. I like the 'crispness' of the RR in the 1.5 as in 'throw it around' in a very light breeze! I'll have to get a set for the Rev 1....

I am not sure that I have experienced the levels of turbulence implied by some in the higher wind range when the speed of 'spring back' might be helpful. I wonder if the turbulence referred to is that produced by other kites in team flying?

Felix

[bartman]

Okay, no voting will be required!

I ordered a set from my "local" kite dealer (about four hours away, but he is the closest and nice to deal with). I doubt they will be of much use this fall unless we get a nice turn of good weather again, but we'll see. I also ordered a kite bag for everything and a set of 120' lines so now I'll need to keep the kites for at least another year.

Bart

[kitecowboy]

Okay, no voting will be required!

I ordered a set from my "local" kite dealer (about four hours away, but he is the closest and nice to deal with). I doubt they will be of much use this fall unless we get a nice turn of good weather again, but we'll see. I also ordered a kite bag for everything and a set of 120' lines so now I'll need to keep the kites for at least another year.

Bart

Mike can get race rods?

[jimfielder]

I have a set for my B-Series. Just ordered and received a set for my Sedgewick Rev 1. It's sitting by the door for a bit of air time tomorrow.

[bartman]

Cowboy,

Yes, Mike can get Race Rod sets. About two weeks or so to get to me, but if I've lived without them for this long I can wait a bit longer. Just don't know if they will see much use this year anymore, but I have some extra cash now so I'm getting them now!

He is placing an order this week so get on it!

Bart

[Dean750]

Well, my questions have been answered.
Race Rods are Race Rods, there need not be anything else. They're functional in all kites applied for all conditions applied. No need for more versions of something that already works.
In the winds I was yaking about you'd be flying a full vent if you have it. And would probably be flying with the Race Rods already available.

Dean

[bartman]

Just got word that my set is in the mail so I might have them by this weekend which means there still may be available times to try them out this year yet. I'm excited all over again if they work for me like raged about here!

Bart