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Race Rod Sets?


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#1 Dean750

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 08:43 PM

Ok, so the 1.5 Race Rods weigh close to the 2 wrap Pro Only rods, but have the spring and strength of a 3 wrap? Right.
So my question is, is there a 3 wrap Race Rod set? Or a 4 wrap set for that matter. Just a thought. Just curious as U get the 2 and 3 wrap std. rods with a Std. B.
I think after flying the std. rods that I like the 2 wraps better for light wind but some times I have to switch in the 3 wrap center spar. Works pretty darned cool actually.
I'd buy both and save the Std. sets as back up rods. 2 Race sets would be cool for stacking in the LE when the wind is up wouldn't it?
In 7 mph with my B std. I feel like I should be flying with both LE in with the 3 wrap downs. I know it's a SUL/UL and has a nice wind range, but I'm constantly worried about breaking rods. 9 to 15 mph winds with both LE's on 90# 85' lines is stressful at times.
Guess I'm not used to the flex in the frame compared to my old Rev 1 with 4 wraps. Not alot of flex.
Dean

#2 RevWizard

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 08:46 PM

Ok, so the 1.5 Race Rods weigh close to the 2 wrap Pro Only rods, but have the spring and strength of a 3 wrap? Right.
So my question is, is there a 3 wrap Race Rod set? Or a 4 wrap set for that matter. Just a thought.

Dean

The unofficial answer at this time is NO!
That is not saying what might happen in the future.

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#3 Dean750

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 08:55 PM

The unofficial answer at this time is NO!
That is not saying what might happen in the future.



:kid_brooding:

#4 Baloo

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:26 PM

Hi Dean,

I am lucky enough to have 2 standard sails and 2 vented sails. One of each with race in. The other two I swap around depending on the wind. Vented with 3 and 4 in at anything over 40mph. Then you get a BEND going.

I am not sure if you have a vented B, however if you do try the Race rods in that. you might be suprised at how low a wind you can fly in.

And of course if you dont have a vented B, you will just have to get one.

#5 big bri

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 10:58 PM

Hi Dean,

I am lucky enough to have 2 standard sails and 2 vented sails. One of each with race in. The other two I swap around depending on the wind. Vented with 3 and 4 in at anything over 40mph. Then you get a BEND going.

I am not sure if you have a vented B, however if you do try the Race rods in that. you might be suprised at how low a wind you can fly in.

And of course if you dont have a vented B, you will just have to get one.


Better buy two vented Dean.Just incase.

Ive been replacing my rods in my Bs with all Race frames.I just keep a few spare spars in the bag for high winds and breakages.That way,if the wind does rise i know what else to throw in with the race rods.Usually another race rod,but hey im lucky i own a race rods mine :kid_devlish: .
Great idea on the stronger race rods.Would be a good idea if it happens to label them diffrent perhaps.A red label or somat.


BRIAN... :sign_kitelife:

#6 Aerochic

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 06:47 AM

My thinking on the Race Rods was that you were getting the benefits of 2 Rods in one (2 & 3 Wraps). As windspeed increases to higher levels 20+ for example, I'm thinking flex ~isn't~ a good thing. So I'm not seeing the benefit of making Race Rods that are 3 and 4 wraps. Seems like that would defeat the purpose of the rod system. Am I wrong in this thinking??? Experienced folks chime in on that...

Baloo: You fly in winds THAT steep!?! O_o

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#7 Jonesey

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 08:29 AM

My thinking on the Race Rods was that you were getting the benefits of 2 Rods in one (2 & 3 Wraps). As windspeed increases to higher levels 20+ for example, I'm thinking flex ~isn't~ a good thing. So I'm not seeing the benefit of making Race Rods that are 3 and 4 wraps. Seems like that would defeat the purpose of the rod system. Am I wrong in this thinking??? Experienced folks chime in on that...

Baloo: You fly in winds THAT steep!?! O_o



Hmm not sure ... I think Bens original comment about the race frame was "90 area weight graphite rather than the normal 120 and changed the lay up and some other stuff" ... so the existing race rods are essentially an improved 2 wrap .. better materials, made better ... so 'stronger' for a given weight ..... the problem is that stronger doesn't necessarily mean stiffer in this case I think you get a rods that has the bend characteristics of a 2 wrap but is strong enough not to break when you take it onto 3 wrap territory thus its 'whippier' .....

You could of course apply the same principal to a 3 wrap race rod ..... higher modulus carbon or just more carbon and/or a more efficient layup... either way a 'stronger' 3 wrap that 'yields' later ..... you could also change the moments of inertia etc and make it stiffer if desired.

In reality what I think the race rod gives isn't just about strength its about response ... the frame has to match the design of the sail (leading edge curve etc) to 'support' the right shape but must also respond to gusts by flexing enough to dump power and then recover quickly enough to maintain control ... if the frame is too soft the response is 'mushy', too stiff and the kite is twitchy or overpowered...

I have been playing around with a home made super vented this week (summer well and truly over) and getting the right leading edge combination (shape and rods) has been really 'interesting' ....

Not hard to see why most people don't like SLE leading edges and also why the most sensitive flyers mix up their frames to find the right match for the conditions and sail .....the current race rods do a really nice job (a little like venting) of smoothing out the bumps ... I feel a suspension analogy coming on or maybe the subtleties of Sports Bra design.... ok better not ;)

Taxi!

#8 Jonesey

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 08:33 AM

Baloo: You fly in winds THAT steep!?! O_o



In sailing there are 3 'types' of wind .... True, apparent and barroom ... think Baloo is talking 40mph Barroom which is always at least 10mph more then true wind speed ;)

#9 big bri

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:43 AM

Waw,what brought that on Jonesey,Im certainly impressed.My eyes have glazed over,but im impressed. ;)

I was going to give my 2peneth on the spar variations,but how do you follow your post.

Aerochic has a point on the Race Rod ,does it defete the object of the exercise .The question is.Do we need a Race Rod that does higher winds.

BRIAN...ile get mi coat

#10 Jonesey

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 12:55 PM

Waw,what brought that on Jonesey,Im certainly impressed.My eyes have glazed over,but im impressed. ;)

I was going to give my 2peneth on the spar variations,but how do you follow your post.

Aerochic has a point on the Race Rod ,does it defete the object of the exercise .The question is.Do we need a Race Rod that does higher winds.

BRIAN...ile get mi coat


Well that's easy to answer... its new and we haven't got one so of course we need one ;)

#11 FortFlyer

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:10 PM

Well that's easy to answer... its new and we haven't got one so of course we need one ;)


Personally I think a higher wind race style rod would be defeating what they were created for, light wind application.

Now as far as for new and we dint have I would be all for a 6 or 7 wrap 1/4" to replace doubling up 3 wraps or 3 & 4 wraps, don't know if anyone has noticed the considerable wear thats happening from this as they rub together in the LE sleeve from all the bend and release.

I may have to call Ben and see if he would be willing (if at all possible) to maybe make a few sets for me to buy and test. :kid_devlish:
Jim,
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#12 Baloo

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:29 PM

In sailing there are 3 'types' of wind .... True, apparent and barroom ... think Baloo is talking 40mph Barroom which is always at least 10mph more then true wind speed ;)

Not so Jeremy, unless my anonometer is lying to me. Twas about that the first time I met, JB, Harrier, Skunk, Lam, Chris, think it was Carl and others on Blackheath. Definatly that and more at the Shrewsbury festival.

Must admit to only doing it a few times, however if you drive for long enough to get there it is just rude not to put a kite in the sky. and it focuses the attention too.

#13 Aerochic

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 03:27 PM

Jonesey: Hmmmm, Ok... I also recall Ben describing how expensive it is to produce the Race Rods and thus maybe not very cost effective productionwise to revamp the whole the Rod series as a result of the RRs success.

Interesting about the 3 different types of wind. I didn't know that!


Not so Jeremy, unless my anonometer is lying to me.

Must admit to only doing it a few times, however if you drive for long enough to get there it is just rude not to put a kite in the sky. and it focuses the attention too.



Still...Eeeeeeks! I flew in 25mph yesterday with my 4wraps and worried about breaking stuff. :blue-confused:

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#14 Theresa

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:26 PM

Ok, so the 1.5 Race Rods weigh close to the 2 wrap Pro Only rods, but have the spring and strength of a 3 wrap? Right.
So my question is, is there a 3 wrap Race Rod set? Or a 4 wrap set for that matter. Just a thought. Just curious as U get the 2 and 3 wrap std. rods with a Std. B.
I think after flying the std. rods that I like the 2 wraps better for light wind but some times I have to switch in the 3 wrap center spar. Works pretty darned cool actually.
I'd buy both and save the Std. sets as back up rods. 2 Race sets would be cool for stacking in the LE when the wind is up wouldn't it?
In 7 mph with my B std. I feel like I should be flying with both LE in with the 3 wrap downs. I know it's a SUL/UL and has a nice wind range, but I'm constantly worried about breaking rods. 9 to 15 mph winds with both LE's on 90# 85' lines is stressful at times.
Guess I'm not used to the flex in the frame compared to my old Rev 1 with 4 wraps. Not alot of flex.
Dean


Dean, you want me to send some Race Rods to Lincoln City? :)

#15 deebs1596

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 06:33 PM

Still...Eeeeeeks! I flew in 25mph yesterday with my 4wraps and worried about breaking stuff. :blue-confused:


25mph with a 4 wrap...i may be overstressing my 3 wraps a lil bit then; i had it up in about 30mph winds.

i was looking into buying some but curious as to their wind range?
----Dan-----

lost in thought or lost in a field... either way send a search party

i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.

#16 Sailor99

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 08:13 PM

Not so Jeremy, unless my anonometer is lying to me.

I'm innocent. It wasn't me, it was Jonesey! Honest.
Over - Jeremy

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#17 Jonesey

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:33 PM

I'm innocent. It wasn't me, it was Jonesey! Honest.



Guilty as charged and only jerking your chain Chris..... honest!

And as for "6 or 7 wrap 1/4" to replace doubling up 3 wraps or 3 & 4 wraps, don't know if anyone has noticed the considerable wear thats happening from this as they rub together in the LE sleeve from all the bent and release." Ive said it before and I'm almost not ashamed to say it again (ok a little bit) ... I still use my SLE on my vented B rather then 'double stuff the luff' ..... however I think the real answer in those condition would be a different sail .... when is that official Rev super vent coming out Ben ;)

#18 Baloo

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 03:02 AM

I'm innocent. It wasn't me, it was Jonesey! Honest.

Pleas accapt my most humble and abject apologies Jeremy.

In the red mist of rage when reading the scathing remarks I confused you with Jonesey.

Shame on you Joesey, I would ot have thought you capable of such hurtfull cutting remarks.

Hence the reason I thought it was Jeremy wh made them. Now from him I woul exect it.

In full chain yanking mode of course.

#19 Aerochic

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 04:07 AM

25mph with a 4 wrap...i may be overstressing my 3 wraps a lil bit then; i had it up in about 30mph winds.

i was looking into buying some but curious as to their wind range?



Your mileage may vary, I was experimenting with rods that day plus I always worry overmuch. :? Race Rods are definitely worth having!

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#20 deebs1596

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:56 AM

yea im kinda surprised i didnt break them yesterday-i had it up and it was flexing like heck and i threw up the rev after i broke a spar on a nexus i had converted to a quadline...but it happens i guess

i think im gonna order a set of rods once i scrap together the money; kite flying is making me poor :ani_wallbash: but i love it
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i fly what i can and stare at what i cant.




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