90 replies to this topic

[Dean750]

Sorry for getting the Chick thing started. I meant to stop with the C, but apparently.... Well hell, I don't know what to say to explain it.
Sophisticated woman who's a child at heart? Maybe thats what my middle finger meant when it hit the K

Now that I'm working full time I hope my flying ability isn't degrading like my typoing skills

Dean

Thanks for correcting my typo with a typo so I didn't feel so bad

[Aerochic]

Sorry for getting the Chick thing started. I meant to stop with the C, but apparently.... Well hell, I don't know what to say to explain it.
Sophisticated woman who's a child at heart? Maybe thats what my middle finger meant when it hit the K

No harm no foul.

[Andy S.]

The old hand by the earole jobby is a hard thing to break,

Give 'em a power-kite to play with.....They either get out of the habit or wind up like Van-Gogh!

I'm interested in your comments regarding using 50lb lines for increased low-wind performance.....I'm looking at getting a single Rev as a low-wind alternative to my power-kites (sub 10mph wind). My online supplier offers 90lb lines (in 80' and 120') and 150lb line (80'), I was assuming that the 90lb 80' lines were my best bet, but now I'm wondering if I should seek out something lighter?

TIA & All the best
Andy S.

[REVflyer]

my lightest wind outdoor set-up of commercially available products is on either the Zen (still learning it's uniqueness, it likes longer lines, slow & graceful techniques) or a Pro SUL 1.5 (lots of mileage on this size, it's a flailer's dream ride in my opinion). Long lines in no wind cries out for LPG 50#, . . . .... if everyone nearby agrees to use them. All the other (shorter) sets are 90# and as we approach a throw & catchable length of flying lines, the sleeving vanishes, . . . .... as well as those hog-ring styled handles.

If it's a dead calm it's still the pro SUL and I'm on my best comfort level with experience in these conditions. I've got a big ole $%&*!?-eating grin on my face, in fact I secretly prayed for a dead-calm all weekend long, HONEST!
My newest Pro Bazzer Weapon sports a french bridle, (commercially available ever, hopefully?)
SS 2P straight spines for down spars (equates to indoor Rev tubes for weight/strength/flex) and I had 'em laying around the house already FREE.
16 inch magic sticks, built from point 125 carbon tubes, (reinforcing those skinny down spars),
a Zen leading edge (very durable, HEY! I flail!)
17 inch gapped titanium handles rigged as no-snags with a lesser, moved more forward bend and very long foam grips crafted by Glenn Hanyes.

This set-up features an outstanding glide ratio with the leading edge facing down, (probably 3 to one, even if you release the handles entirely out in front of you). I can roll it up landing and unroll reliably taking off, it flips inside out easily and does beautifully flat axels, i find it difficult to snag a flying line and can still jerk it around to music regardless of the wind activity/direction.

I've got at least 65 feet of line(LPG 90#) if I'm practicing, but only fifty feet if I'm showing off for the public at something official. Then the kite effortlessly returns to my hand without any movement of my feet and I can almost always throw it all the way out to the end of the lines unless it's directly upwind, then you need more mass, (like those SLE sticks we never find a use for). It's a long enough length for some time to pass after each hand technique. Slow enough for folks to actually appreciate and marvel on one of the Rev's best tricks. Not many kites can be reliably caught and thrown back out again without ever touching the ground.

At the end of each throw I already have both handles in my "weaker" hand. Both handles are retained in the thumbs forward position, resting between a pinky finger or directly next to each other = a perfect inverted paste (and hover) set-up position after the strings fetch-up tight. You don't even have to move, it just locks upside-down at the end of the lines all by itself!

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

I'm with Watty on this one I love my Sedgewick with two wrap but for a 1.5 I bought this a one piece printed sail with race rods.

I haven't done a direct comparison between the two, as to which flies in the lower wind and to be honest I'm not really sure I care that much. Although they were both bought and sparred for low wind conditions they handle very differently. The printed Rev gives me the 1.5 feel in wind you can barely feel on you skin whilst the Sedgewick give me a much more laid back "don't care if I do, don't care if I don't" Sunday afternoon fly.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[Bazzer]

Any low wind flying requires some weight in the leading edge.
The same weight is needed to throw around and use gravity when turning.
If you get to the point where the leading edge is to light it would be like having a glider without weight in the nose.
The Zen does have that right mix.
That is why it does not have an ultra light leading edge material.Tried it didn't like it.
Paul has a flying style is unique to him and few others.All Valid.
The majority of people want to continue flying in lower winds with the same set up in the handles that they are used to.
Does it fly exactly like a 1.5...well no.
Does it make flying easier in low wind.
Yes.
Does it give positive feed back through your hands when flying.
Yes.
It does what it says on the can(if it came in a can)
It will allow the average flyer to fly in wind speeds they could not fly in before.
It allows teams to do demonstrations when normally they would be sat there frustrated and embarrassed.
Bazzer

[kwmf]

I was surprised to find that the Zen is by FAR the heaviest Rev that I own, but I can certainly feel the difference in the limited test conditions I've had for it.

Prior to the Zen, my low wind setup was a 1.5 B-series with full race frame which comes in at 170g. While I understand the Zen is bigger and has longer spars, I was surprised at the tank like leading edge and the 249g total weight - a bit more than a 46% increase in weight.

I'm waiting until I can get conditions where I can fly the 1.5 and Zen against each other - ideally when I'm starting to struggle on the 1.5 B. We get gusts where I fly so I need the wind to get well into the 0-6 mph range for fear of a gust over-stressing my Zen.

I don't have a Pro, but maybe the Zen flies better thanks to a sprinkling of Bazzer dust.

Steven

[Bazzer]

I was surprised to find that the Zen is by FAR the heaviest Rev that I own, but I can certainly feel the difference in the limited test conditions I've had for it.

Prior to the Zen, my low wind setup was a 1.5 B-series with full race frame which comes in at 170g. While I understand the Zen is bigger and has longer spars, I was surprised at the tank like leading edge and the 249g total weight - a bit more than a 46% increase in weight.

I'm waiting until I can get conditions where I can fly the 1.5 and Zen against each other - ideally when I'm starting to struggle on the 1.5 B. We get gusts where I fly so I need the wind to get well into the 0-6 mph range for fear of a gust over-stressing my Zen.

I don't have a Pro, but maybe the Zen flies better thanks to a sprinkling of Bazzer dust.

Steven

It sounds like you are about to do wing loading equations Stephen!
Don't make me break out the SLE and beat you with it!
LOL
Anyway the equations won't help.
You are missing three fractal elements!

Magic sprinkles ...........ABRA 03
Rainbows ..................Spectrainium
Unicorn hairs in the core of the carbon..................... UNI3C ....as it appears on the periodic table(please note the 3 due to the number of strands)

Bazzer

[BillLamm]

the Zen is a little bigger than the 1.5 (if I remember correctly) so that would count for some of the weight and that against the bigger sail area would make for more lift plus more LE weight to throw around

only 3 unicorn hairs?!?! they must be getting expensive

[RevWizard]

the Zen is a little bigger than the 1.5 (if I remember correctly) ....

Slightly!
It is the same size as the REV I in that it uses the same rod lengths.

[kwmf]

Don't make me break out the SLE and beat you with it!

Don't make be break into Dragon requests

[Bazzer]

Don't make be break into Dragon requests

Touche'

[beach]

Touche'

Dragons!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ben

[Aerochic]

A FULL bodied dragon!!!

[Baloo]

wOw, I NEED a Dragon, love yours Bazzer however I NEED one of those full bodied ones.

As far as Revs for light wind go. Well I didnt think I could beat a Sedgwick with Race Rods, then I got hold of that Watty protoytype, light weight Rev 2 with Race Rods, WOW SO MUCH FUN.

Now I am spoilt and have a Zen, thanks Bazzer, a new love in my life. Must admit I now look out the window wishing for light winds on my Days off. Have found it seems to like longer lines though, where I like the 50ft ones on the Sedgwick.

However I do have another BIG love in my life. Quite a bit more noisy than a kite. Waiting to get it home then I will post a picture of it.

[stroke survivor]

Revisiting this topic on a slow winter day,Did we ever come to any sort of agreement on sails or lines?? I have used my 1.5 SUL with 15" handles and 50#x50' lineset for more time on the lines than ever!!:kid_smartass:Just got it this summer, but it is in the air more than my other kites!! Gives me a better chance of flying when most go home waiting for more wind!! I, too, have light wind dualie experience that helped me feel the kite better in those conditions!! Affordable setup for light winds!!! I have used both 2 wrap and RR, like them both!!

[REVflyer]

Flying Smiles Kites is conducting a low wind/no wind clinic over president's day weekend in the outer banks of north carolina. All the equipment is furnished in eight work-stations, you only need to try each set-up out for a while in direct comparisons to determine your own preferences. What happens if you added magic sticks, or altered the bridle? Why guess? Come out and compare 'em side-by-side!

The clinic cost is $125 including three nights of lodging.

You'll never know unless you experiment yourself or try out someone else's equipment. I'm constantly amazed at how folks respond to my insistence to try out something different. Most comments are so favorable I can't understand why some of these options are NOT universally accepted as gospel! I stuck Mike Kory on the handles and we had a grand laugh about the differences. It is different, but not negatively!

TK did her first roll-up landing and unrolled it again to much laughter. John had a look on his face like "what the heck have you done Paul!?!"

Edited by REVflyer, 20 January 2011 - 03:17 AM.

[Felix Mottram]

<snip>
TK did her first roll-up landing and unrolled it again to much laughter. John had a look on his face like "what the heck have you done Paul!?!"

Have you got 140ft lines set up for 10 kites?

Felix

[REVflyer]

No Felix, three workstations are offered, just eight kites.

Each area has a different objective. The whole "what if" is explored with an individual coach and all equipment provided.

One station is 4 kites, Bazzer's Old Glory Masterpiece SULs on 90#/120s, no snag handles with identically tuned leaders.
This is a comparison field with only 1 variable considered at a time. You try a stocker from the factory, then compare it to something else. Three bridles plus the option of magic sticks are offered. You'd take some notes, try some tricks, fly some precision, just get a feel for each option and see what is the best to you. Afterwards as a group we can discuss the findings and determine what's different and why.

I'll bring the 1point6 bridle board along, if anyone wants to make that model and Will Sturdy is attending as well, so French Bridles will also be commercially available (all pre-tied and ready to install)

The second station is two kites on 80 foot lines, I'm proposing 2 speed series kites as a direct comparison, possibly a timed precision activity for prizes on one of the sessions.

the third is two kites on 50 foot lines, surrounded by dense foliage,
swirls and turbulence are challenged, comparing the stock Zen (not mine!) against an SUL 1point5.

Paul Dugard & Dave Ashworth are assisting me, but everybody is paying their own way. We will have just as much fun as the participants, . . . no free lunches for WOW!

President's Day weekend on the outer banks of NC, three nights lodging + the retreat for 125 USD. What a deal! We're also throwing in an indoor experience one day for the ultimate exploration of no wind training.

I think we have ten signed-on right now including the coaching staff. We could take three more participants and nobody would have to wait around. I assume one of the Shooks will be manning the store and the instructors will be on station rather than in the flight sequence. Nobody else is needed though, we're good to go "as is" if that's how it works out.

Get me a personal email if anyone's interested. My van will be driving by Norfolk VA around noon on Friday, so you can fly-in most of the trip to there and get shuttled the rest of the way. We're reversing our course Monday,... you could make a flight around 3 or 4 , w'vee planned to depart OBX no later than 1:00 PM

[Andy S.]

I'm starting to get some fairly regular use out of my second-hand B-Series on the low-wind days when my powerkites won't play (anything under 8-10mph).....I'm pretty satisfied with my progress as a whole, but I'm really struggling to fly well in anything much less less than 5mph; all my attempts inevitably result in a gradual retreat upwind.

I only have a 3-Wrap frame for the kite at present and I'm wondering how much difference a set of 'Race-Rods' would make in the hands of an inexperienced flyer like myself.....I've noticed a great deal of posts suggesting that successful low-wind flying is much more dependent upon skill and practice than it is on ultralight parts.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

TIA & All the best
Andy S.