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#1 Dean750

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 09:07 PM

Is there any irritation when you've worked on a routine for a while and someone doesn't do what they are supposed to?
Like everyone LE down flips 180 to the right and one flips left. Or everyone but one is flying at speed with the one lagging a little creating a gap. When doing a through move and having one kite laggin and the whole team has a wrap in, isn't that a slight downer?
I know that the individual team mate feels bad and tries their damndest to fix it, but do the other team mates give'em crap about it?
I'm a little anal, I strive for perfection and thats not really possible with the wind and a Rev (until seeing Stephen Hoath and his wife's routine to From This Moment) so I'm just curious. I was starting to get over the perfection thing until I saw they're video.
Is it Monkey who keeps spinning left when everyone else goes right? :kid_devlish:

Dean :ani_punk:

Or is Monkey left handed?

#2 Sailor99

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 10:20 PM

To me it is a little like being part of a string quartet playing Vivaldi; if one person fluffs a move the music ceases to be The Four Seasons. It is not a case of the rest of the team spitting dummies though, but just that more practice is needed. There are exceptions though. If one person goes before the call. I believe Mr Hoath generally says "I will say 'Go'" in such circumstances. Alternatively if you are just team jamming then everything is more relaxed and improvised.
Over - Jeremy

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#3 Dean750

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 11:58 PM

I figured most would be relaxed and just have fun. I was thinking in terms of demo's and comps and by the Monkey comment was refering to a MAJOR team such as IQuad and others. I'm so competitive that a screw up on my part is damn near suicidal. Not literally. But it's pretty major. And I've never flown even pairs with the Rev. I never have that view toward those I'm flying with. I was just curious. When flying teams I'm thinking like Blue Angels, Thunderbirds....etc....
Precise and together at all times because anything less could mean catastraphe. From what I've noticed most teams have at least one pilot off at any given time. I know it mess's with the timing of the tune but if the manuver was just slightly slower it would be perfect without even a slight booble. Flying your line and being VERY aware of the rest is what makes my thought a valid thought.
Flying with others is difficult I know as my father and I flew pairs for fun when we'd go out and fly. (Duallies) My thought is the TOTAL control with the Rev. So by my anal thinking there really is no excuse for not being perfect when the rest of the Rev world looks up to U. I'm arm chair flying if you all haven't noticed yet. Working on my typing skills :kid_devlish:
I don't mean to belittle anyone flying teams. I was just curious as how ppl dealt with team members boobling when it really counts.
Like I typed, I'm VERY criticle of myself. Not so much on others, but I know when I screw up and take ownership for it and am my own worst critic.

Dean

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#4 Stephen Hoath

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 06:00 AM

I'm a little anal, I strive for perfection and thats not really possible with the wind and a Rev (until seeing Stephen Hoath and his wife's routine to From This Moment) so I'm just curious. I was starting to get over the perfection thing until I saw they're video.


Dean :ani_punk:

Or is Monkey left handed?


I agree that the routine was as close to perfect as you can get but I cannot take the credit. The fliers are Mark & Jeanette Lummas from CA. I was lucky enough to fly with them in dual line team years ago and they are members of The Flying Squad (USA) but their main team now is Too Much Fun with Rob Desporado.

Still, I understand what you mean about the team flying and the only answer is to practice as much as these two have done and then once in a while it all clicks together like that, and when it does, what a feeling.

Stephen

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#5 Simon

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 09:09 AM

Still, I understand what you mean about the team flying and the only answer is to practice as much as these two have done and then once in a while it all clicks together like that, and when it does, what a feeling.

Stephen


Ditto, I have flown with Stephen at the highest level possible in Quad line (and won) the only way to do it was
1 - get together,
2 - write a routine,
3 - get together learn to fly the parts of the routine,
4 - get together tweak the routine,
5 - get together fly the routine,
6 - get together watch the video of the routine, change the routine, learn the new routine
Goto 3
Repeat until no mistakes and the ballet is flown with no calls
Compete, WIN, Repeat until you have enough cups, Retire. :kid_devlish:

true ballet needs no calls Stephen is being modest, he flew with Mark & Jeanette in Skydance (back to back World Champions) when there were lots of VERY good dual line teams. Myself & Geoff Strangeway tried to learn thiei last routine, it took us a year and we were still way off. It was very hard. But that dual line routine was simply on the music, its what skydance and the other teams at the time did. Stephen, passed that on to our Quad line competition team. Luckily we had 3 of the best Quad line flyers in UK/Europe at the time in the team so that helped (we had all been National champions as well). But we did practice very hard, every weekend for months.
We all had our special place in the team, and bring a skill that we pass on to the rest of the team.
Stephen, his great choice of music, me time keeping, Steve, actually can't remember what Steve did :kid_devlish:

Above all else we were honest. We trusted each other. and we knew what we wanted. At the time our only aim was World domination !!! In our first season we came first in every part of every competition we entered. During that time, Stephen & Steve won every Quad Pairs competition they entered, and I think they got 1-2 in every individual competition they entered.

This is why most teams don't last long, you live in each others pockets, you need to pick your team well, we have shared many hotel rooms, ferry trips, plane trips, etc...
Next year will be 10 years for The Flying Squad, we still fly together, we probably have more fun now, as we pass on what we have learned over the years.

The Flying Squad

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#6 play365

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 09:12 AM

I agree that the routine was as close to perfect as you can get but I cannot take the credit. The fliers are Mark & Jeanette Lummas from CA. I was lucky enough to fly with them in dual line team years ago and they are members of The Flying Squad (USA) but their main team now is Too Much Fun with Rob Desporado.

Still, I understand what you mean about the team flying and the only answer is to practice as much as these two have done and then once in a while it all clicks together like that, and when it does, what a feeling.

Stephen



Ah the P word !!
GARY




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#7 Felix Mottram

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 09:26 AM

<snip>
Next year will be 10 years for The Flying Squad, we still fly together, we probably have more fun now, as we pass on what we have learned over the years.


I know how you feel.... <grins>

Why are we 'celebrating' 20 years?

Best wishes

Felix

(Check the pictures, nostalgia....)

http://www.felixmottram.com/

#8 Dean750

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:44 PM

Sounds like the team flying is easier than being in a lasting group. I know how that can work as I've burnt everyone I've flown with in the past out on flying. Some are just more dedicated than others. I really wish my father had not given up on flying. We were getting pretty good flying together. We had the opputunity to fly a couple of matching kites at the Washington International Kite Festival back in 96. A pairs team were letting ppl fly they're kites. So we stepped up and got to fly. The team was Spectra sponsered I do believe. High wind with they're variable vented Spectra Reactors and 500# line. At first they were ok with how we were flying till I managed an axle in the middle of the window and then I came up behind the kite my father was flying and refueled. They were instantly in our ears about if we'd done this before and did we know what we were doing. :kid_devlish: Well, duh. We were only allowed about 2 more minutes of flying before they wanted they're kites back. We landed and the ppl watching started clapping. Those two guys really looked worried. So we went over and set up our MEFM's and started flying together on 150# line (all we had) set up with both spacers in and the long top spreaders. The crowd that was around the Spectra team moved over and watched us fly till we decided to go check out the vented Rev.
That was a great day.

Dean

#9 Love2fly

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:00 PM

I have to say that patience is a sign of humility. If you're flying team, you know everyone's abilities. If it's a bad day or half hour for someone, that does suck a bit, but, it's not time for a perfectionist to blow a head gasket, either. It's gonna gel for the team; hopefully, at a competition where there's a huge audience :kid_smartass: . I just think you have to be able to just "shake it off" and regroup; imho. Have fun first and foremost!
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#10 FortFlyer

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:40 PM

The thing about team flying is it's all about fun you start getting all competitive and crazy it just makes it seem like work and takes away from the general experience.

Ego's and attitudes will most likely ruin it for most, hence the answer to the questions on why I never competed.

Getting a decent routine down is great and can be loads of fun heck i enjoy doing it as often as possible, but why get all freaked out because kite # 4 was 2 mm out of alignment with the rest :confused!:

OK I'll shut up now before this gets taken WAY out of context.
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#11 Dean750

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 09:28 PM

I am myself a perfectionist. It's not realistic. I would never blow a head gasket. If I was the one who was 2mm outta wack I'd be mentally kicking myself. I might even mutter a few words under my breath. But I'd still be having fun.
The porpuse of getting this thread started was to find out how EVERYONE out there handles being on a team when there are tough times. I've always wanted to fly either pairs or teams. But where I live there just aren't enough ppl who fly or are addicted enough to want to practice on a fairly regular basis.
I guess what got this started is my own personal expectation and watching all these videos of the different teams and wondering what they think when someone boobles. Any side of the face comments? Like, "umm, your other left", "you know we're all going over here, where you going?", "your rods full of sand?" ya know, funny little remarks at the time. Or after.
Kiting is the only thing I do that doesn't really involve other ppl. Everything else I do or would do the relationships while not hurtful are full of smack yakin and such. For me thats just friendly compitition.

Dean

#12 Hezz

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:19 AM

I guess it depends on whether the mess-up was due to someone not paying attention, or forgetting a part of the routine, or whether it was wind-related (like catching a freak gust at the wrong time, or breaking a line).

To be honest, when I'm flying I'm 100% focused on what my kite is doing, relative to those around it. I'm not critically analysing anyone else's moves, I'm trying to ensure that as a whole, the team looks good! That means adjusting my flying to match the speed / angle / position of the other kites in the team. The longer you fly as a team, the easier it becomes to 'see' the shapes and fly to them, matching to the other team members. Sometimes you just have to 'adjust' the routine (e.g. someone can't fly any higher / lower because of the wind), so saying "oh you should be at 20% or it's all wrong and you've screwed up" would not be an option!

If we've finished a particularly good or bad routine, Stephen will let us know :kid_content: But there's rarely any recriminations on an individual (unless they ceased to be a team member part way through the routine!) - only "opportunities to improve next time" :blue_wink:

Hezz

#13 Dean750

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:39 AM

Thank you Hezz, for some reason I couldn't put it that way.
Fly in your own space to the best of your ability while being observant of the others and adjusting to make it look good. That would be me.
I think I'd still have something goofy to say though. Never hurtful or negative. Maybe ask whether their lines were equal, or did anyone else feel the kite wash? LOL, when I have been able to fly with others I've seen that the one who really had a tough time for what ever reason felt bad. Sometimes making an indirect funny breaks the ice, maybe theres an apology and then we'd work on what they felt went wrong.
Sometimes theres just a brain fart along the way. They know what to do but lose the thought for a second. I know how that feels. And someone blowing in your ear doesn't always help.
Fun is what counts.

Dean

#14 Kitelife

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:07 AM

iQuad works really hard to keep it enjoyable.

We work really hard to improve each time, and as long as everyone is giving their 100% to it, I'm all good.

I'm focused on the effort put forth, with the performance quality in a close second.

[babble]

Observations on team sport kiting...

It's a volunteer sport, as to say, no one is consistently getting paid, or compensated for 100% expenses.

We've found that an audience responds far more to the energy and style of a team than it does to technical execution.

Some of the simplest and most visual moves elicit the biggest responses, and face it, we love to see people rock out (in good taste). ;)

We started doing it for fun, if we don't preserve that, we're lost... Teams should come to a general consensus on goals, both short and long term.

[/babble]

They're kites, why get angry about anything?

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#15 play365

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

Thank you Hezz, for some reason I couldn't put it that way.
Fly in your own space to the best of your ability while being observant of the others and adjusting to make it look good. That would be me.
I think I'd still have something goofy to say though. Never hurtful or negative. Maybe ask whether their lines were equal, or did anyone else feel the kite wash? LOL, when I have been able to fly with others I've seen that the one who really had a tough time for what ever reason felt bad. Sometimes making an indirect funny breaks the ice, maybe theres an apology and then we'd work on what they felt went wrong.
Sometimes theres just a brain fart along the way. They know what to do but lose the thought for a second. I know how that feels. And someone blowing in your ear doesn't always help.
Fun is what counts.

Dean


So your never wrong :D :P ?.................... yeh right lol
GARY




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#16 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:13 AM

Dean

I’m sorry to have to say this but I think someone needs to lighten up a bit. You say you “strive for perfection” and you cite a video of Stephen Hoath and his wife (The Flying Squad) as an example of the perfection you strive for. You have also had advice from Simon, Gary and Hezz (all of the The Flying Squad) as well as Felix Mottram a founder member of The Decorators who along with Revolution are celebrating their 20th anniversary this year. They are too modest to mention it, but between them they probably have well over 100 years of Rev flying experience. As for myself, I bought my first Rev three years ago I have been dipping my toe into the team flying pool for maybe 18 months now and I took my first step into a public arena with my Rev last month. Okay, so maybe I'm a slow learner, maybe not, but if this was easy everyone would be doing it.

You don’t say how long you and your team have been Rev flying but I suspect you have a way to go before you catch up with The Flying Squad and/or The Decorators. Whatever your level of experience it is clear you are way behind them both in Team Spirit and without that you might as well throw in the towel right now.

It is supposed to be fun FFS.

Stone in Shoe Bob

It's Good to Share the Joy.

#17 Felix Mottram

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:36 AM

<snip>
They're kites, why get angry about anything?


Competition does funny things to people.

Collaboration is the way to go... the bigger picture!

Best wishes

Felix

#18 Sailor99

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:39 AM

Personally I find it really helpful when Groz or Choc blows in my ear - it often leads to a really crisp fast burst. Uhumm. But like dean and others said, it has to be about fun but balanced with doing your best. If you are not learning there is no point trying. And if you can't have fun give up. Just the same as any other flying really.
Over - Jeremy

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#19 Love2fly

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:14 PM

I personally enjoy kissing :lips: everyone I fly with; with precision and accuracy!
...our kites... of course :kid_smartass: .
Laura
 
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#20 Dean750

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:18 PM

Thank you Sailor.

And Mr. Bob, I'm not part of a team. I've only flown with 2 other Rev fliers since I started flying the Rev 12 years ago off and on. Nothing ever serious which is why I'm just now learning to fly reverse circles.
I've never typed that I was a hard hiney on anyone other than MYSELF. I'm that way in all aspects of life, not just kiting. But if I'm ever going to be a part of the team I want to know that I will be able to contribute to the finer side of what ever we do. Most of all having fun. My mistakes will never take away from the others. Well unless I cause a big knot in our lines anyway :kid_devlish:
I was just wondering how it was with everyone else. To see IQuad looking great and one turn the oppisite as the others, or other teams experiencing the same kinds of small boobles. I was just curious of how the teams got on. Frustration at times is part of the learning process. Sometimes I think the more frustrated I get the quicker I learn. But if you could ask anyone whos flown with me I bet they couldn't tell you I've ever shown frustration. Maybe determination.
I'm sure when and if I ever get to the skill level of any of these teams there probably won't be much more frustration to be had.
And I did get the credits for the pairs video wrong. I apologize, but as far as the flying goes, go check it out. It's one of those moments for those two where everything just clicked.

Dean :sign_kitelife:




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