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Maintaining inverted hover help


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#61 Felix Mottram

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:46 PM

<snip>


As far as I am concerned the key issue is to enjoy flying the kite. You may not have perfect control, just now, but given time, (it must not be a chore), everything will be easier.

Felix

#62 kimbo

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:35 PM

Kinda figured those two things were not big factor. I'm gonna just keep at it. I better put my 3 wraps back in to stiffen up my sail.
What about B-series over 1.5 full vent for learning? The slower vent seems more forgiving.

#63 Watty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:52 PM

Kinda figured those two things were not big factor. I'm gonna just keep at it. I better put my 3 wraps back in to stiffen up my sail.
What about B-series over 1.5 full vent for learning? The slower vent seems more forgiving.


In general, the vents do smooth out the gusts, which in turn could make the kite less twitchy, giving the kite a smoother feel, which, I think, could help.However the control difference between a full sail and a full vent rev is very dependent on wind conditions, so don't be taking your full-vent out in 3mph wind hoping to achieve a perfect inverted hover.

With this said, as the wind gets higher, a full vent is not invulnerable to the twitchy-ness.

Edited by Watty, 20 December 2009 - 09:53 PM.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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#64 kimbo

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 04:51 PM

In general, the vents do smooth out the gusts, which in turn could make the kite less twitchy, giving the kite a smoother feel, which, I think, could help.However the control difference between a full sail and a full vent rev is very dependent on wind conditions, so don't be taking your full-vent out in 3mph wind hoping to achieve a perfect inverted hover.

With this said, as the wind gets higher, a full vent is not invulnerable to the twitchy-ness.


Being in North Dallas I sure miss being back in San Diego and the "clean" wind oportunities near the ocean and bays.
Will make do with these "choppy" conditions that seem to be the norm here.
Thanks for all the input.

Kimbo

#65 kimbo

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 03:48 PM

Being in North Dallas I sure miss being back in San Diego and the "clean" wind oportunities near the ocean and bays.
Will make do with these "choppy" conditions that seem to be the norm here.
Thanks for all the input.

Kimbo


Finally getting the inverted stunt down. I found that I can do it much better with my left hand close to my waist with my right extended and under my left arm.
May seem odd but this seems to be the only way I can maintain a inverted hover.
Does handle knot configuration makes things easier? Every time I get inverted the kite wants to drop, so I was thinkin there might be an adjustment that will
help with this.

Thanks

#66 Kitelife

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 03:08 PM

Working on a video tutorial for this one, on the immediate "to do" list... Just working out video equipment issues. ;)

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#67 kwmf

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:14 AM

14mph+ winds with gusts .... full vent B .... 4 wrap frame ..... Steven thinks to himself that if I can do down 45 degree hovers it's about time to hit the inverted.

5 minutes later I'm holding it in a small enough area for more than 30 seconds to count as a hover ..... YAY ME !!!!

It was squirly as hell to begin with and I kept spinning out, but every repitition I was holding it longer and longer. My shoulders are still up with tension, but my hands are low and I'm holding it together. I can also reverse it up and fly it down to control height ..... next stop (after some practice) inverted slides. Posted Image

Awesome end to the weekend - cracking the inverted hover

#68 kimbo

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:00 PM

14mph+ winds with gusts .... full vent B .... 4 wrap frame ..... Steven thinks to himself that if I can do down 45 degree hovers it's about time to hit the inverted.

5 minutes later I'm holding it in a small enough area for more than 30 seconds to count as a hover ..... YAY ME !!!!

It was squirly as hell to begin with and I kept spinning out, but every repitition I was holding it longer and longer. My shoulders are still up with tension, but my hands are low and I'm holding it together. I can also reverse it up and fly it down to control height ..... next stop (after some practice) inverted slides. Posted Image

Awesome end to the weekend - cracking the inverted hover

Good on ya. I found that moving backwards helps. Also got a tip to put a wrap or two in the lines to make things a bit less sensitive.



#69 REVflyer

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:52 AM

inverted hover?
Here's a quick trick to assist you. As you are sliding (for example from the left to the right side) take that handle's bottom end and stick it directly into your rib cage, holding it stationary. Now make all of your adjustments with only one/ the other hand. As you become more proficient you won't need this crutch!

You only thinking about one hand, nothing is mirrored and it's easier to get the "feeling"

As you practice sliding, try to keep the kite at the same level (with starts & stopping the action as well) across the window. You should see it going fast, then dead stop, repeating across the surface and so level/straight it looks like it's riding a laser beam!

#70 Adam

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:04 PM

I had an inverted breakthrough today.

Finally I got it. I can now fly inverted from the top of the window in control, fast, slow, hover, and so on. Very excited to have this come to me today.

Practice, practice, practice.

Now if I could get the clockwork, I might be able to fly with some other people.

I also recieved my new used Rev 1 from California today. Looks pretty cool, and cant wait to fly it.

Posted Image
"It was the wind Captain"

#71 bartman

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:30 PM

Congrats Adam! This month marks the second anniversary of when I first had a real inverted hover!

I still have issues with clockwork though. My suggestion, and what I am trying to do myself, is get there by working on basic up/down/left/right hovers and making the transition from one to the other smoothly and not needing the whole sky to do it. By doing this you are programming your muscles to recognize four points of the clock. After that start adding more points at 45 degree increments until those get programmed.

At least, this is my theory on cracking this one!

Bart

#72 Adam

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 03:41 PM

Congrats Adam! This month marks the second anniversary of when I first had a real inverted hover!

I still have issues with clockwork though. My suggestion, and what I am trying to do myself, is get there by working on basic up/down/left/right hovers and making the transition from one to the other smoothly and not needing the whole sky to do it. By doing this you are programming your muscles to recognize four points of the clock. After that start adding more points at 45 degree increments until those get programmed.

At least, this is my theory on cracking this one!

Bart


Hello Bart,

I just watched Dave Shenkman's tutorial DVD. Very informative, and great presentation. If you have not seen it, I'm sure he will see that you get one. Dave is the proprieter of the Kite Connection in California.

I am going to slow down a little, and just try to focus on the basics. Try to crawl berore I walk so to speak.

That looks like what you are doing. Patience will pay off.

Have a good weekend!

Adam

Edited by Adam, 23 October 2010 - 03:42 PM.

"It was the wind Captain"

#73 bartman

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 08:12 AM

I tried that crawl before walking thing and found I got bored too easy! Posted Image

Now I just try all manner of "stuff" because sometimes it leads to discoveries that puzzled me on something else. Sort of the same way as I tried some wild over control a few times to see what the kite did. That was interesting too and led to figuring how how to do an inverted slide.

Hmmm, jack-of-all-trades and master of none????

I do set out to always practice basic stuff each time though. I divide my time between flying around enjoying what I can do and flying around enjoying what I am working on at the moment.

Everyone, though, should have fun doing it in whatever manner they enjoy.

Bart

#74 --Pete

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:29 AM

One common thread to all this: everyone seems to describe moving handles in order to make the right wing go up or the left wing go up (or down in either case).

Try this instead: think of opposite/differential motions of the handles (left brake out - right brake in) as causing rotation. Clockwise is clockwise whether inverted or not. The kite is not turning right or left, but clockwise or counterclockwise.
Once you get the idea that the in-out tilt (differential; in relation to each other) of the handles controls rotation; and the in-out tilt (common; together) controls motion towards and away from the leading edge, it becomes much more easy to overlay different amounts of differential and common tilt to control the kite. I would practice hovering in all positions before doing ANY forward flying, much less backward flying.

Once you have practiced that, straight down wind, until it becomes automatic, then begin moving your hands forward and back in relation to each other to make the kite slide sideways (or maintain height when on end).

(Different control motions, but this view -- CW/CCW -- of kite motion can help on dual line kits as well. How many times have you seen a novice 2-liner dive a kite into the ground instead of pulling back into the sky and then hear, "Well, I tried to turn it to my right." When teaching beginners I try to never say the words left or right. When talking about the kite I use CW and CCW; when referring to the hands I point to or tap the appropriate hand or shoulder.)

As a creed to believe in, I say, "Right and left are the mortal enemies of sport kite flyers!"

Edited by --Pete, 25 October 2010 - 09:33 AM.

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#75 bartman

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:40 AM

That's brilliant Pete. I managed to get a friend to try my Rev for 60 seconds on the weekend and he had instant issue with the idea of left and right when he was driving it towards the ground. Thankfully he understood "thumbs forward" before it came in too hard.

I'm going to try the CW and CCW (or ACW as we were doing at Long Beach to confuse some of us a bit more) and see if that helps him. That is help him if he will try it again.

Bart

#76 Adam

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 02:39 AM

I had gusty winds 12 to 26 yesterday. My kite of choice was a mid vent with a three wrap frame on 120 foot lines.

Flying was good, and I was able to hold an iverted hover for over 60 seconds, however it was rocky. I'm thinking the answer is more practice, and a nice clean wind.

Thoughts? Posted Image
"It was the wind Captain"

#77 REVflyer

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:17 AM

I was out also in those same conditions at the Germantown Soccerplex using the vented EYEs (about the same venting square inch area as their mid-vent model). Mine had the Rich Race frame leading edge and Zen down spars, 120s on short no snag handles. We could just as easily have used a full vent sail/race frame arrangement Adam.

The quick power of the gusts was challenging, occasionally twitchy too, . . . to smooth all that out you'd go to more venting. In the lighter blowing conditions though, you'd wish back for the mid-vent as it has more snappy command executions.

It was so much easier when everybody flew a full sail ~ regardless of the conditions!

#78 bartman

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:07 AM

Yes, more practice!

My inverted hovers started exactly as yours did. The wobble factor has been reduced to almost zero over the last two years and the only explaination is continual practice over that time.

I have found for low level hovers it helps to turn the handles more horizontal and put them wider apart.

I also have found that if the wobble starts it is best to resist the temptation to start making a lot of adjustments, but to exhale, relax my arms and hands and let the kite settle. It sounds wonky, but really it works.

Bart




I had gusty winds 12 to 26 yesterday. My kite of choice was a mid vent with a three wrap frame on 120 foot lines.

Flying was good, and I was able to hold an iverted hover for over 60 seconds, however it was rocky. I'm thinking the answer is more practice, and a nice clean wind.

Thoughts? Posted Image



#79 Felix Mottram

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

<snip>

I also have found that if the wobble starts it is best to resist the temptation to start making a lot of adjustments, but to exhale, relax my arms and hands and let the kite settle. It sounds wonky, but really it works.

Bart


That's the way to go! Way cool Bart...

Felix

#80 Adam

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 01:04 PM

I was out again today for three hours, and using a non vented sail with race rods. The kite had a great feel, and I worked on skills as well as just having a good time flying the kite.

I am finding the inverted hover is getting easier to hold the more I practice, today I counted two minutes. I am still all over the place right an left, and still rocking from side to side, but am getting much more comfortable being inverted.

Sustained winds would make this much easier, I believe, and gusty cons=ditions seem to be the norm around here.

I also snapped a veritical spar today when a gust got ahold of the kite. Very spectacular, the rod broke in two and flew 50 feet. I switced over to a three wrap spar, and all was good.

Practice, practice, practice.

Bart, you have some great kite photos. Looks like your ready to fly in groups.

Adam
"It was the wind Captain"




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