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Maintaining inverted hover help


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#41 Baloo

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 04:22 PM

If you set up the handles so that you need a brisk snap, thumbs towards the chest to launch LE up. You might even need a step back to make sure of the launch. This will mean your top lines are quite a few inches longer than the bottom ones. (seems to go against anything sensible you would do when setting a Rev up)

You will find, if you give it a bit of time to get used to it, the kite will respond much better.

When you are inverted however this means you have to do very small inputs or the kite will flip over quite easily till you get used to it. My inverted hover is still not too good, however is much better with what is accepetd as "a lot of brake" in the setup.

This set up might not work for you, seems to be working for me OK, you will find it is the way a LOT of folks set thier Revs up.

To give you an idea of my setup. My top lines are as long at the throw on B series handles, the bottom lines are only about 2" long. Typically I will fly on the second or third to last knot on the top, I suppose this would make my top lines about 8 to 9" longer than the bottom (might actually measure tham some Day, might be more like 7 to 8" not quite sure). Then I re adjust for the wind. Or how I feel on the Day, or the phase of the Moon, Tide etc. etc.

However at the end of the Day, you fly on what makes you feel right. Do try all types of settings though, and dont just dismiss it as wrong. Give it a while to see if it makes a difference.

#42 Kitelife

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:55 PM

Happy to try and provide some more ideas...

Can you describe your basic hand/arm position when you're trying to hover inverted?

Also, what kite and what general settings?

John Barresi

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#43 liabner

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:11 PM

However at the end of the Day, you fly on what makes you feel right. Do try all types of settings though, and dont just dismiss it as wrong. Give it a while to see if it makes a difference.


Will do thanks Baloo

Gettin' ready to do a double post here, hope I don't gauld anyone with this action, but I haven't figured out how ta do a multiquote.

#44 liabner

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:31 PM

Can you describe your basic hand/arm position when you're trying to hover inverted?

Also, what kite and what general settings?


hand/arm position: hands close tagether (6 inch apart), about belly button high, elbows close to da side.

kite and what general settings: OH MY :wacko: :lol: Kite wise I was all over the place dat day, but here goes SLE (SUL)2 wraps, SLE Standard (3 wrap), B Series Full Vent (4 wraps). Those are the only ones I was tryin' ta do da inverted hover on. By set up I'm guessing you mean rods?

Thanks Much
Ab

#45 Love2fly

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:54 PM

Hi Liabner-
Once you find that your leader adjustments and hand postition are comfortable and correct, there's still a lot of practice required to get the hover down pat. Paul LeMasters had given me great advice for this; I do it all the time as one of many drills to hone my skills.
Here goes:
Pick a point off in the distance, in front of you; not too high off the horizon... maybe a two or three feet (1 meter, roughly). It could be a roofline, tree line or whatever. Now, raise the kite up (in reverse) and hold it at that level for as long as possible. Eventually, you'll want to hold it there for a few minutes. Your hands will constantly be doing micro adjustments to "Own Thy Hover". As you build the muscle memory for this, it will become easier to do. OK, so with some experience of my own, I've added to his drill. Now, pick a point higher up and do the same thing. Eventually, work your way to the top of the window. You will now be able to fly to the top of the window, in reverse, with total control! If you are over inputting at any point, the kite will flip in toward you. Just back off a drop on the input of your thumbs going forward (slightly) to keep it from flipping.

Hope this helps! Have fun....
Laura
 
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**** REVS: Fly it, you'll like it!
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#46 Kitelife

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:55 PM

Hands sound right, sail and frame set ups sound okay as well...

How about your handle (knot) settings?

John Barresi

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#47 Baloo

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:12 PM

Oh, and dont be too rigid with thinking that you have to keep the handles vertical.

I find that different kite positions, my hands rotate too.

I would have to go out and fly to confirm it, however I am fairly sure when the kite is inverted the bottoms of my handles are pointing outwards, away from each other.

Not sure why, I think it has to do with helping my mind work out the upside down ness of it all.

Hope this is good advice, I am sure someone will chip in if not.

Then do what I tend not to. Practice, practice etc.

#48 REVflyer

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 04:55 AM

your bottoms rotate out like that
so you don't stab yourself in the
crotch with a sudden flailing motion!

it's one of the first involuntary movements MEN learn!

#49 Kitelife

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:11 AM

your bottoms rotate out like that
so you don't stab yourself in the
crotch with a sudden flailing motion!

Golden truth, right there. :D

That, and it allows the handles to move forward and back freely, outside your waist and hips. :)

John Barresi

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#50 Felix Mottram

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 12:34 PM

Golden truth, right there.

That, and it allows the handles to move forward and back freely, outside your waist and hips.


Best not to get stuck by your ear either! <grins>

Felix

#51 Jeepster

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:03 PM

... 15" handles ...


Are you sure you have 15" handles? Measure the tubing length ... along the centerline of the tubing, not across the tips. If you truly have 15" handles, then you might trying a pair of 13" handles (standard with the 1.5 B-series). That will calm the kite down a little bit.

Cheers,
Tom

#52 Felix Mottram

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:41 PM

Oh, and dont be too rigid with thinking that you have to keep the handles vertical.

<snip>


I would suggest that keeping the handles vertical just simply will not work most of the time.

I think that learning flexibility at the outset will gain a considerable advantage. Please do not tie those wrists together...

Thanks

Felix

#53 Downforce Fighter

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 03:34 AM

One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike

#54 Felix Mottram

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:40 AM

One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike


I was amused to try flying the three line kite....

Felix

#55 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:02 AM

One little thing helped me considerably, not only for inverted hovers, but also for a lot of others maneuvers.

In the beginning I always kept my lines untangled at all times, but if you let the kite spin around 2 or 3 times, bicycle turns or inverted hovers become a lot easier because the kite is a lot more calm and stable.

That little trick worked real good for me, and is always worth a try, specially in the beginning.

Just a thought.... B) it might help!

Bye, mike

That is something that had not occurred to me before and it does sound a bit counter intuitive, but I think you may have something there. Over control is a common problem for novices and the friction on the lines, created by the wraps may well help to reduce over control.

My only concern is that it will also dampen out any feedback from the kite and learning to interpret the feel of the kite through the handles is an important step on the way to becoming a good Rev flyer.

As with any adjustment (and thatís what we are talking about here, a temporary adjustment,) there is no such thing as a free ride, every benefit has a cost and we all have to decide at what point the costs begin to out weigh the benefits. My advice to any novice on this one is, suck it and see, Downforce Fighter has clearly had some success with this but if truth be told there arenít many short cuts in this or any other game and there is no substitute for practice.
Stone in Shoe Bob

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#56 Dean750

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:36 PM

In reading your explination of the inverted hover and it being all over.....
You said the bottom leaders were all in. So go all out. If that doesn't fix the over control, move one knot in on top at a time. Too much brake is why your over controlling. More brake will come later. Trust me. Work with the 13" handles first. You'll have better luck when learning.

I still remind myself multiple times when flying to relax my hands. Don't make quick adjustments. Patient hands.......
Small movements. Work up to the point and you'll find in all hover orientations slow, small inputs will get you were you wanna be.

Hope my suggestion works. Because of the abilities of Rev kites Patient hands will be the key. Slow down. Soon you'll find your hands will be just about perfectly still. Every vid of JB exhibits patient hands.


Dean

#57 Kitelife

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:23 AM

1st and foremost, RELAX... Dean is a spaz (said with love), he's right on that, smaller inputs = smaller errors = smaller corrections. ;)

John Barresi

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#58 liabner

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:22 PM

THANKS 4 ALL THE HELPFULL advice :ani_yahoo:
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, I've been takin' it all in on lurk mode ;) digestin' it all.
Low winds last Friday: I spent more time fightN my lines on the set-up :ani_whistling: :ani_wallbash: dat's another thread. However ,I did manage some inverted hovers. 15" handles both SUL & Pro
Today winds were 10-15: I started with Full Vent B, spent a good hour on this one, 80% inverted hover trainin'. Then I switched to Standard, SLE with 3 wrap frame, whole different feel, much more of a challenge maintainin' inverted hover, another hour in driver seat with 80% of time toward goal @ hand. Started playN with inverted hover slide. 13 B-ser. handles today. :clap2:

Thanks Again

Edited by liabner, 14 December 2009 - 02:27 PM.


#59 kimbo

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 11:00 AM

After reading all the posts since I'm new at learning the rev, I did not see any posts about line length or weights in the rods. Must not be any help or someone would have spoke to it.
I've only tried inverted flying on 60ft lines so maybe my 90's will help, not so touchy.

Thanks

#60 Watty

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:39 PM

After reading all the posts since I'm new at learning the rev, I did not see any posts about line length or weights in the rods. Must not be any help or someone would have spoke to it.
I've only tried inverted flying on 60ft lines so maybe my 90's will help, not so touchy.

Thanks


The difference in line lengths, does not usually make any significant difference in the handling of the kite. The type of difference you see with longer lines is that the kite has more room to fly. Some would say that it flies "slower". This is because it takes longer for the kite to go from one side of the window to the other, simply because it is a longer distance.

In general, line length and weight of spars do not change the way, but that are able to help in different conditions. Now, the flexability/stiffness of the spars can make a difference, but this is not a large enough difference that you have to have a specific build of lines and rods in order to get an inverted hover. It is one of those things that takes practice, no matter what way you look at it.

Spence "Watty" Watson

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