80 replies to this topic

[Bob D]

I like Jim's suggestion to try hovering from an inverted launch. That looks like a great place to start.

(I'm not sure if this makes a difference but I've been using a Sport lineset that I got with my SS years ago. I made a new Shanti lineset but I still have to make sure the left set is the same length as the right set. Would the fact that a Sport set isn't as slippery as a Spectra set impact how the kite reacts when the lines are twisted around?)

[Sailor99]

I am not familiar with sports lines, but if they are not as slippery then yes it will make your life harder when tough. I have just taken a new set of laserpro golds and can do 11 full spins before I notice the lines starting to lock onto each other. On my Climax lines, treated with sewers' aid, I have not found out how many twists it is before they start locking - I get bored spining round before they tie up!

[Dean750]

Thats how I learned the inverted hover was from a launch and learning to hold it about 6" or so off the ground. Another reason for learning this way is that you have the ground close by so you can tell for sure if your going up or down, side to side. Some ppl have the problem of learning to hover inverted of their thumbs rolling forward and the higher up you are the louder the bang into the ground is. LOL Know what I'm yakin about. It's funny kinda.

Dean

[KYT ADIK]

<snip>
find what is best for you, and keep trying.
"There is another way"

Kinda like computers...

[Jim Foster]

Ok inverted hover working fine, but how about inverted flying. (ie) LE down, and moveing kite to top of the window inverted, the kite always wants to right its-self (ie) spin around LE up, anyone else trying to fly inverted from bottom of window to top in a stright line, or am I trying to do something that the kite is not designed for ?

I have pigtails on my handles, and have found a happy place for brake.

Any sugestions ?

When in an inverted hover, slowly apply brake. Very slowly. Another method is to fly forward to the top, stop, turn your kite over and start down very slowy, then stop, and apply brakes until the kite starts back up toward the top.

Best words, Don't give up.

[Dean750]

What Mr. Jim said. As I'm sure you've figured out the inverted hover takes a light touch and some attention. Flying in reverse is pretty much the same. Very slowly apply more brake. When you notice a side rising you simply let that hands pinky move slightly forward. Right wing left hand, left wing right hand when inverted. I slightly bounce the brake lines when attempting to fly in reverse. To me it's just me reacting to a rise on one side or the other. But it looks like I'm bouncing the brake lines back and forth. It keeps the kite more neutral for me anyway. Still working on this myself. But it's something you could try anyway.

Dean

[Jim Foster]

The main reason I said "Don't give up", is that, just like riding a bicycle, your brain has to learn how to keep things straight. You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand".....................

By that time, things have already ended.

You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle.

[Jeepster]

... how about inverted flying. (ie) LE down, and moveing kite to top of the window inverted ...

Any sugestions ?

QQ,

It looks goofy ... so you have to fly by yourself or have a thick skin ... but I had a break through when I moved the tips of the handles about three feet apart. I held them at waist height with the bottoms tilted outward about 60 degrees and the tops spread as far apart as comfortable ... three feet for me.

What made me try it is that I found the kite to be very stable for awhile at the end of a dive stop. What I noticed was that the middle of the kite became heavily loaded and the bottoms of the vertical rods were pulled closer together. By holding the handles apart, I was able to partially duplicate this situation and pull the vertical tips more towards each other ... thus causing the center of the kite to billow. Maybe I was simply on the verge of a mental break through, but I immediately noticed that I can control the kite in the inverted position ... yep, when the winds are just right, I can even back the kite up the window. The "goofy" method helped me learn the touch that Jim and others talk about. Now I'm working on looking a little more acceptable in public by moving the handles closer together.

Oh, don't forget that there is absolutely no "one method" of learning to fly this kite ... keep trying different things until something clicks. And, by the way, I think the ultimate secret is practice, practice, practice ... a little each day is much better than a full day every other week.

If you try the "goofy" method, please give me some feedback on what you find.

Cheers,
Tom

[Sailor99]

As previous posters have implied, there isn't really a magic fix all for flying inverted to the top of the wind window. Once you have inverted hover off to pat you just have to get out there and practice the inverted climb, and again, and again, and again............

One small trick that may help would be to slowly walk forward as you climb. It takes a bit off the wind pressure off the kite and this helps you climb without over-control wobbles and tip flips. Both the latter are real problems with inverted flight, and both result from the pilot (you!) trying too hard and doing too much - ie over control.

So, real easy with the controls, spread the bottoms of the handles apart and walk gently forwards. Give it a go and keep at it, it will happen!

Once you have got all that under you belt, inverted turns and circles should be next on your agenda. But that is for another week..........

[Stone in Shoe Bob]

The good news is, that once you have the inverted hover off pat it is actually easier than hovering l/e up.

The main reason I said "Don't give up", is that, just like riding a bicycle, your brain has to learn how to keep things straight. You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand".....................

By that time, things have already ended.

You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle.

I call it "getting it into the walking and chewing gum part of the brain". I cracked it by repeatedly sliding the inverted kite across the window about 6 - 8ft above the ground, then just before the edge fliping the leading wing tip over and sliding back the other way. It feels quite relaxing and it does wonders for the muscle memory.

Typo corrected 24 July 2008 to satisfy humor Sailor99

[Sailor99]

it does wonders for he muscle memory.

Too much information Bob!

[Dean750]

You don't have time to think "Oh Gee! ..... the right wing is falling, now, which hand has to apply the brake, let me see, ..Oh yes, they said "right wing, left hand".....................

By that time, things have already ended.

You keep trying, slowly. One day you just start flying inverted without thinking much about it. You will, trust me. Just like riding that bicycle.

Guess thinking about what your doing could get in the way of learning.

If your practicing over and over and over (because you've got that "I'm gonna get it" bug you'll have the time. Relaxe and do your thing.

Dean

[Kitezen]

Thank you for the pointers, and I do need more practice. I will try more inverted baby steps, but still trying to get my head around the left is right, and right is left, to be more natural.

I like the idea of bouncing the brake, I have never thought of that, and will have to give it a go.

Looks like more fun flying in my future, and practice, practice, practice.

Thank you all for your the info.

I found that looking at the line, handle to kite, while inverted, builds the muscle memory needed for inverted flying. Make small moves, and watch the kites movements, while looking at the line. That is how I got a good handle on inverted flying, oh, and lots of practice. Most important thing to remember; good practice methods lead to good results.

[Dean750]

I hope something someone in here has said helps QuadQrazy. My reasoning for talking about knowing which hand controls what wing inverted is that like when you learn to fly forward you know that left brake turns left, right turns right. Upside down is backwards. So for most people learning it's something to pay attention too. I still occasionally think left and give more brake on the right which means I loose my invertedness for a second.
I fly alot inverted. When not working on vertical flight in reverse my favorite move so far is a sliding pinwheel about a foot off the ground. For me the move has taught me alot about knowing your hands and what does what and when to do it.

We'll both get, I have Rev faith.

Dean

[Kitelife]

A tip... Once you master it, an inverted hover is the most stable position in turbulent conditions, or when the wind drops.

[Dean750]

That it is John, that it is. When moving backwards in light wind like I have too, I go to the top of the window and turn it over inverted. Then I just walk forward. The Rev inverted falls MUCH slower than right side up. Sorry, was day dreaming of light wind flying, sorry I got off the subject.

Dean

[Dean750]

Had a perfect day flying today. Had my Rev 1 set up and my fathers MEFM beside it. Bounced back and forth between the two and had a blast.
Worked on bouncing the brake lines (a slight tensioning of the lines alternating back and forth) and am now flying vertically in reverse. Consistantly. Now to figure out how to do circles in reverse. That still seems impossible at the moment.

I don't know what others think but I finally figured out how to stabilize reverse flight horizontally today. My hands always rotate with the kite, so the top hand equals the top wing. I always seem to over control in reverse flight that way. Today I kept the top hand horizontal with the kite but the bottom hand was vertical. I noticed I could lock the bottom hand in place and slightly bounce the top brake line and fly perfectly in reverse. Instead of working both hands to control the Rev I only had to slightly work the top hand. I almost couldn't over control it this way. Plus it seems both horizontal and vertical, (especially vertical) that the bouncing kept the sail loaded. It seemed like the Rev actually gained speed by the bouncing of the brake lines.

Dean

[liabner]

Last time out, Midwest winds (all over the place 5 ta 12 mph)
15" handles, 4 knots in from the kite on top, 1st knot in from kite on the bottom.
Straight up hover is okish, well a lil shakey maybe but that's just a practice, practice....thing
INVERTED HOVER!! it's all over the place: Do I need to change handles, my knot setting or just keep working it ( practice, practice.... )

Edited by liabner, 10 December 2009 - 04:02 PM.