Jump to content


Photo

Loads of Brake


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#1 Baloo

Baloo

    Frequent Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands UK

Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:34 PM

I am sure I was following a conversation about flying with loads of brake. Been looking for ages and can't find it now. I think I was reading it Yesterday, either that or I was dreaming.

Anyway to the point. Tried the first (or last) top knot and second bottom knot this evening. It took a bit to get it launched, didnt like to fly when the wind dropped, I was on a b'v with Equipped rods mind.

Initially it wanted to keep flicking, then I found I could flack the flick. Tried it a couple more times, not too neat and rather slow but for the first time I could flack my flicks so can actually calim to have done a few flick flacks.

Got more used to it after a while. The kite was much quieter and seemed to do what I wanted it to do more.

Still got to own my hover and want to learn Bicycle.

Going to keep trying with the brakes on and see if it gets easier. Seems to make sense anyway.

Thanks for the posts about it making me try.

You watch I will go strasight to the thread now won't I.

Cheers all.

#2 Sailor99

Sailor99

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,334 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, UK

Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:39 PM

I first tried it a few weeks ago, and am still trying to get used to it. Not sure I have everything right -I still revert back to giving myself a bit of forward power, espc in very light winds. But the clinic in August should help in that respect. But overall my discovery was the same as yours - quieter kite that did what I wanted (mostly!).
Over - Jeremy

Posted Image

Knowledge: The small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify.

#3 Choccy

Choccy

    Occasion-al Flyer

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,880 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Southern England

Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:59 PM

I find launch exceedingly hard to achieve when on the 2nd brake knot.
I do give it more 'power' on the top line to compensate.
Forward speed is not the same despite trying to use my arms and moving backwards.
Need help here.

However, for inverted work, it smooths and helps out the oversteering and hence it is easier to do the inverted slides :D
Now they are fun rather than agony on my arms or ending in frustration from the wobble.

I am considering putting a 3rd knot on my brake line, but feel I won't beable to launch at all.
Will try it on the next high wind day on the vented only.
1 of the 47.

#4 tonycarl

tonycarl

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Patterson, CA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:13 PM

It is harder to launch with lots of brake, but sometimes you can cheat by grabbing the top lines with a couple of fingers and squeeze them against the handles, launch, then let go after launching. :)

#5 Sailor99

Sailor99

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,334 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, UK

Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:17 PM

Happy Birthday Tony!

(Oh stuff! I am OT again!0
Over - Jeremy

Posted Image

Knowledge: The small part of ignorance that we arrange and classify.

#6 Watty

Watty

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, WA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:19 PM

I have always flown with a lot of break, and when I was first learning, it was difficult for me to hold a normal hover. I was great at inverted and side hovers, but I just could not get the normal hover right. As you practice more and more, you just become better at it with those settings.

When I fly, I rarely have my hands perfectly vertical. They are normally more horizontal with my thumbs on the inside. With my hands like that, I am able to achieve much more forward power without sacrificing break.

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#7 Dean750

Dean750

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany Oregon USA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 02:56 PM

I've learned that learning with forward momentum and adjusting more break works best for beginners. :w00t: Not that we're beginners here. Watty and John are right in saying you get used to it and will eventually fly that way. You will get used to it and fly that way. I learned aparently after watching John and Watty fly with alot of break. I personally was turned off by the fact that it was so hard to get the kite to fly without wanting to set down. My line length and weight with the winds I get here didn't help.

If you can take off, fly around and dive stop inches/centimeters from the ground without touching the ground, then your at the point where you can start playing with the brakes. Take it slow, and like John says with the hover, OWN it. You can't start at the master level and expect to get to that level in a few days or weeks. It takes work. Obviously we're dedicated to what we're doing. So it won't take long. ;) Just be patient and work on your control. Thats the key is CONTROL.

Dean :matrix:

#8 Watty

Watty

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, WA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 03:31 PM

Well said Dean.

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#9 Dean750

Dean750

    Frequent Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany Oregon USA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 03:34 PM

Well said Dean.



Thank you Watty, I don't feel all that tarded after some of my more recent posts :w00t:

Dean :matrix:

#10 tonycarl

tonycarl

    Occasional Poster

  • Forum Member
  • PipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Patterson, CA

Posted 29 June 2008 - 11:41 PM

Happy Birthday Tony!

(Oh stuff! I am OT again!0


Thanks Jeremy! 63 years young!

#11 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 04:23 AM

I am sure I was following a conversation about flying with loads of brake. Been looking for ages and can't find it now. I think I was reading it Yesterday, either that or I was dreaming.

<snip>

You watch I will go strasight to the thread now won't I.

Cheers all.


There have been various references I think.

I certainly posted about the advantages of not having to fight with the kite flying forward at an 'uncontrollable' rate.

The trade off is that 'longer arm movements' may be needed, but again on the plus side, greater precision may be achieved - less wobble!

Felix

#12 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 04:30 AM

I have always flown with a lot of break, and when I was first learning, it was difficult for me to hold a normal hover. I was great at inverted and side hovers, but I just could not get the normal hover right. As you practice more and more, you just become better at it with those settings.

When I fly, I rarely have my hands perfectly vertical. They are normally more horizontal with my thumbs on the inside. With my hands like that, I am able to achieve much more forward power without sacrificing break.


Hi Watty,

Where is the reference to hands being 'vertical'? I am very curious as to why anyone should think that that might be significant. All that matters is the relative position of the top and bottom lines in each hand. Much more significant is the relative position of the hands in respect to the orientation of the kite.

Actually I think that holding the handles horizontally may help to prevent accidentally catching one handle on the other when flying 'energetically' in 'long arm mode'. <grins>

Felix

#13 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:09 AM

Hi Watty,

Where is the reference to hands being 'vertical'? I am very curious as to why anyone should think that that might be significant. All that matters is the relative position of the top and bottom lines in each hand. Much more significant is the relative position of the hands in respect to the orientation of the kite.

Actually I think that holding the handles horizontally may help to prevent accidentally catching one handle on the other when flying 'energetically' in 'long arm mode'. <grins>

Felix


Oops, following up my own message again! Just checked the JB vid with the outer vented! He is horizontal as I would have suspected.

Felix

#14 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 06:05 AM

Oops, following up my own message again! Just checked the JB vid with the outer vented! He is horizontal as I would have suspected.

Felix


And again...

The horizontal handle position is essential in sweeping the arm through at 'middle thigh' level.

Is this golf? I do not play it!

Felix

#15 Kitelife

Kitelife

    Forum Guru

  • Forum Host
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,934 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, OR USA

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:08 AM

Actually I think that holding the handles horizontally may help to prevent accidentally catching one handle on the other when flying 'energetically' in 'long arm mode'. <grins>

Felix hit it right on the head with this one.

John Barresi

johnbarresi.com | kitelife.com | learnkites.com | teamiquad.comkitemap.org
youtube.com/kitelife | facebook.com/kitelifemagazine | KiteLife on Google+

 

President - American Kitefliers Association

"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

My full list of kite articles - kitelife.com/author/john-barresi
 

Please reward posts that are helpful, give positive reputation by clicking on "Like This" button on the right side of each post.


#16 Watty

Watty

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,867 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, WA

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:11 AM

The reason I mentioned the hand position is that you can get more movement with your hands horizontal rather than vertical. If you try to put your thumbs way back with your hands vertical, you can feel a lot more strain on your wrists and forearms than if your hands are horizontal. And for the first 2 years of my kiting, my hands were always vertical. If a person is flying with a lot of break, they need to get out of the habit of having vertical hands.

Spence "Watty" Watson

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

 


#17 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:21 AM

Felix hit it right on the head with this one.


The only downside is that in team flying you are more likely to connect with a team mates handle.

In The Decs Jacob has 'an immobile wrist' and so cannot turn his hand in certain directions. The consequence is that he tends to be a bit spiky and has to be 'avoided' in quite normal flying conditions.

Felix

#18 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:25 AM

The reason I mentioned the hand position is that you can get more movement with your hands horizontal rather than vertical. If you try to put your thumbs way back with your hands vertical, you can feel a lot more strain on your wrists and forearms than if your hands are horizontal. And for the first 2 years of my kiting, my hands were always vertical. If a person is flying with a lot of break, they need to get out of the habit of having vertical hands.


It would be impossible to 'carry through' long arm movements keeping the handles vertical.

There is effectively no scope for control...

Felix

#19 Kitelife

Kitelife

    Forum Guru

  • Forum Host
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,934 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, OR USA

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:30 AM

Ha, ask Steve about his having to duck every time he and I do 180's on opposite sides of the window, lines crossed.

We've got it all worked out... I swing high, he ducks low. ROFL

John Barresi

johnbarresi.com | kitelife.com | learnkites.com | teamiquad.comkitemap.org
youtube.com/kitelife | facebook.com/kitelifemagazine | KiteLife on Google+

 

President - American Kitefliers Association

"We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails."
(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

My full list of kite articles - kitelife.com/author/john-barresi
 

Please reward posts that are helpful, give positive reputation by clicking on "Like This" button on the right side of each post.


#20 Felix Mottram

Felix Mottram

    Forum Veteran

  • Forum Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 30 June 2008 - 08:59 AM

Ha, ask Steve about his having to duck every time he and I do 180's on opposite sides of the window, lines crossed.

We've got it all worked out... I swing high, he ducks low. ROFL


It is for this reason that I thought that experienced fliers should be able to cope with the 'grid' concept. We expect to encounter lines and handles and react accordingly.

June is almost over. I should get my new kites in the morning and should be 'up to speed' at the weekend. Did you see the image of the vented Rev 1 that I posted over there....> ? <grins>

Felix




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users