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#41 Jonesey

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:26 PM

Felix ... sorry but I think you missed my point .... I'm agreeing with you ... but asking if it wouldn't be useful to explain the logic/science for the new flyers who might be reading this to allow them to make an informed decision as to how to setup....

Personally one of the things I have enjoyed most about learning to fly a rev has been trying to figure out the science etc ... something you can do when its too dark to fly!

I setup leading edge down because Jeremy told me too ... I'm a sheep what can I say ;)

#42 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:27 PM

Obviously this book is no longer in print. Maybe a collaborative effort could be made with the original authors to update and republish this book (electronically most likely), or make a new complete How to fly a Rev book, with Revolution Enterprises endorsement, that would contain everything the current book has with certain issues addressed. Add sections on team, megafly, The Grid, flying competitions at festivals, and so on. Expand the safety section, it is far too short and does not address many things such as personal protection from the elements, things not to do when setting up, flying, and take down, etc. Kinda think of it as a Revs for Dummies book that covers as many topics on the Rev (think of all the good advice found on this forum) as possible, and give both newbies and folks that have been flying revs for a while a good read. Make it available through the Revolution website as a PDF download, or publish it as a hard copy, or both. Revolution could even charge a modest price for the download to recoup any cost for authoring it.

Here I go having grandiose ideas again.......TAXI!!!!!!! :blushing:


Hi Walt,

I think that this forum should/could undertake that role. It may be possible to set up a 'Wiki like' process. Maybe JB could advise <grins>

Felix

#43 Sailor99

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:34 PM

You don't appear to be taking this matter very seriously, you must have read the Taylors comment "Have fun and

You're probably right Fraser ;)

@ jonesey. Since when did I tell you to wear pink shirts then?k
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#44 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:35 PM

Felix ... sorry but I think you missed my point .... I'm agreeing with you ... but asking if it wouldn't be useful to explain the logic/science for the new flyers who might be reading this to allow them to make an informed decision as to how to setup....

Personally one of the things I have enjoyed most about learning to fly a rev has been trying to figure out the science etc ... something you can do when its too dark to fly!

I setup leading edge down because Jeremy told me too ... I'm a sheep what can I say ;)


I do not think that I missed your point really. Have you tried setting up with LE up? LE down is safer, end of story!

I enjoy trying to figure out the 'material' background and have mentioned the 'long arm' technique for use in low and high wind situations.

Most of it is simple in principle but the devil is getting it into 'muscle memory' so that you do not have to think about it. <grins>

Felix

#45 Sailor99

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:40 PM

Jonesey - more stable and faster in forward flight = likely to fly further before crashing and do more damage when it hits something if you set it up ready for forward flight.

There you go, I can be serious. Everyone joyous now? And please, no more PMs.
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#46 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:44 PM

Hi Walt,

I think that this forum should/could undertake that role. It may be possible to set up a 'Wiki like' process. Maybe JB could advise <grins>

Felix

Are we sure this is a good idea, is this a can of worms we want to be opening?

If we start a "Complete Guide About everything Revolution and How to Do It Safely", who is going to carry the can if something is missed.

I don't know if there is any truth in it but here in the UK there is, for want of a better description, an Urban Myth that says if it snows you shouldn't clear your garden path because if you do and somebody slips on it you could be liable because you took responsibility and didn't do a proper job, if you do nothing you are not liable because snow is an act of god and you can not be liable for an act of god.
Stone in Shoe Bob

It's Good to Share the Joy.

#47 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:45 PM

Felix ... sorry but I think you missed my point ....<snip>


Actually, one further observation would be that the Revolution Kite flies forwards 'much better' than backwards despite equal line lengths and all the rest! So eliminate that possibility and the kite is effectively disabled... I cannot remember seeing one spiralling out of control in the reverse direction. <grins>

Felix

#48 Jonesey

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:51 PM

Jonesey - more stable and faster in forward flight = likely to fly further before crashing and do more damage when it hits something if you set it up ready for forward flight.


True but surely that depends on your handle tuning :kid_devlish:

Like I said I was playing devils advocate so the other point is of course that even ignoring handles, lines etc so all things being equal a Rev leading edge down is inherently more stable because it is resting on the entire length of the leading edge so for it to roll over requires a lot more effort/load/leverage then when it is resting on two small tips etc

anyway enough fun I'm off to bed....

#49 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:51 PM

Are we sure this is a good idea, is this a can of worms we want to be opening?

If we start a "Complete Guide About everything Revolution and How to Do It Safely", who is going to carry the can if something is missed.

I don't know if there is any truth in it but here in the UK there is, for want of a better description, an Urban Myth that says if it snows you shouldn't clear your garden path because if you do and somebody slips on it you could be liable because you took responsibility and didn't do a proper job, if you do nothing you are not liable because snow is an act of god and you can not be liable for an act of god.


Yes but you obviously realise why one should not abdicate responsibility by not criticising the original author <grins>

I think that they are more litigious on the left side of the pond so we should make sure that they take responsibility...

Felix

#50 Jonesey

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:59 PM

I cannot remember seeing one spiralling out of control in the reverse direction. <grins>



Surely if its 'spiralling' one half is flying forwards and one backwards ??

Sorry Felix .... couldn't resist ... I really am going to bed now <grins>

#51 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:09 PM

Surely if its 'spiralling' one half is flying forwards and one backwards ??

Sorry Felix .... couldn't resist ... I really am going to bed now <grins>


Go and watch is my simple response. Spiralling is not spinning in my book!

Felix

#52 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:13 PM

At this point, it's being beaten to death... Somebody summarize the various viewpoints already, so that other people can make sense of it all and go test these theories for themselves? :)

Back to fun.

John Barresi

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#53 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:11 PM

At this point, it's being beaten to death... Somebody summarize the various viewpoints already, so that other people can make sense of it all and go test these theories for themselves? :)

Back to fun.


I do not think that there is disagreement here. Your own comments are clear. LE down set up is more stable but the book and DVD suggest LE up!

What people choose to do in an empty field is not an issue but at a busy kite festival and especially mega-team set up it would be best if fliers are consistent in the way they set up in order to minimise accidents. <grins>

Felix

#54 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 10:49 PM

The B-Series DVD clearly states leading edge down...

The book is out of print and is currently only available on the GWTW forum...

The old Rev DVD comes from Rev...

Those who feel corrections are in order should send their input, suggestions and reasoning to those who can effect changes.

All I'm getting at here is that it's getting into a bit of back and forth which is totally fruitless, since all the points have been covered.

Seems to me that aside from directly contacting those responsible for distributing the book and DVD, we (as a group) have done our job by deliberating this thoroughly in a public forum... One step further might be to create a separate topic on the subject, so that it can be pinned for easy finding.

In the meantime, as for methodology during mega teams, I have never had a problem "laying down law" when I'm leading, with respect, of course... Anyone leading a mega team should feel free to do the same, imho.

And the lone fliers out on the field at festivals... I rarely see one with their kite upright, and offer input when I do.

John Barresi

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#55 JeffD

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:18 AM

When the LE is up only the points of the verticles contact the ground. Down and its the whole LE. Simply more stable, harder to move by people or wind gusting and changing direction.

'least seems that way to me.

#56 Kitelife

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:26 AM

When the kite is upright, one tug on either or both of the uppermost (top) lines will send the kite fly upwards, assuming you have the top of your handles staked down and the kite kicked back slightly.

If you stake the middle of your handles (which I see sometimes), they can shift on the stake with a little kite movement (wind, contact, etc).

If you stake the bottom of your handles, the kite lays too far back and tends to fall flat, causing wind to get under it and allowing it to flop about.

==

If the kite is leading edge down with the top of the handles staked, and someone trips your uppermost (bottom) lines, 80% of the time, the kite will flip up, possibly rotate once, and then come back down again... Highly unlikely it will travel very far.

==

I'd recommend you (the reader) experiment with all of these positions, then dash into your lines like a dog or child would, then report back here with your results...

I've used all of these methods at one time or another over the years, but have been leading edge down, top of handles staked for the past 10 years at least due to my own findings.

John Barresi

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#57 Felix Mottram

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:44 AM

<snip>
I've used all of these methods at one time or another over the years, but have been leading edge down, top of handles staked for the past 10 years at least due to my own findings.


I would add that I tie loops to the top of the handles and stake the loops. If the lines are disturbed the handles cannot then 'reverse' on the stake!

Felix

#58 Sailor99

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 02:52 AM

Wow. Page 4 here we come!

Would it not have been easier just to have agreed that the book and video were produced some time ago and that the general consensus now is to park LE down. There really does not seem to be much that is contentious in:

Bottom line, if the kite is upright, it has a good chance of launching by itself and wreaking havoc.


Maybe something can be added to the book of iQuad if necessary - "thou shalt lay with thy nose in the dirt" as well as that owning thy hover stuff.
Over - Jeremy

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#59 Kitelife

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 03:13 AM

Maybe something can be added to the book of iQuad if necessary - "thou shalt lay with thy nose in the dirt" as well as that owning thy hover stuff.

Already a part of the iQuad clinics these days, one of the strongly reinforced doctrines. ;)

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#60 Jeepster

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 04:09 AM

I would add that I tie loops to the top of the handles and stake the loops. If the lines are disturbed the handles cannot then 'reverse' on the stake!

Felix

Felix,

The new clip less handles came about to help alleviate the opportunity to catch the lines on the d-rings. Adding loops to the handle tops seems to add one more thing to snag the lines. Do you use a double line for the pig tails? If so, then the loop is already there ... between the d-ring and the first knot ... yes? Or, am I missing something?

Cheers,
Tom




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