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#21 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:06 AM

Who isn't relevant, nor do I choose to dredge through my memory and select anyone in particular.

Point is, upside-down is the proven method worldwide, time and time again. ;)

John Barresi

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#22 Harrier

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:31 AM

Point is, upside-down is the proven method worldwide, time and time again. ;)


The Rev is even smart enough to work that out, it will flip over when its ready.
It seems there is enough in this publication to keep most folk happy, even some things included for those who enjoy nit picking. :lol:

#23 Kitelife

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:39 AM

The Rev is even smart enough to work that out, it will flip over when its ready.

ROFL!!!!! So true! :D

John Barresi

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#24 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 07:45 AM

I found the suggestion for tying lines on to the kite with the 'leading edge up' somewhat alarming...

I thought that the convention for setting up the kites 'leading edge down' was fully established way before 1996!

@ Felix and Others

I think we all ought to be a little careful before we start apportioning blame here.

Whenever the convention for setting up 'leading edge down' was established is neither here nor there. When I bought my first Rev, summer 2005 it came with an instruction DVD with JH demonstrating the "correct" way to set up, leading edge up, and as far as I know that DVD is still current for non B Series kites.

Whatever the rest of us may think about what is the best way of doing this, I don’t think we can criticise anyone for suggesting novices follow manufacturer’s recommendations without criticising the manufacturer.
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#25 Sailor99

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 08:08 AM

True bob. And it would be great for the instructional DVDs to be update, although there is an obvious cost implication.

Not that there should have been any novices in the mega flies of course. And JB was at pains not to apportion blame but just to observe that it happened and maybe we should not be doing anything to encourage it further.

Separately, it was one of Flying squad took the time to explain the benefits of inverted set up to me. I always would run from the kite to my handles to try and get to them before it started cart-wheeling. I got quite fast at the "run" in fact. As such I must blame this nameless member of flying squad for making me fat and unfit as I now never have to do that run since she pointed out the inverted possibility.
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#26 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 08:25 AM

@ Felix and Others

I think we all ought to be a little careful before we start apportioning blame here.

Whenever the convention for setting up 'leading edge down' was established is neither here nor there. When I bought my first Rev, summer 2005 it came with an instruction DVD with JH demonstrating the "correct" way to set up, leading edge up, and as far as I know that DVD is still current for non B Series kites.

Whatever the rest of us may think about what is the best way of doing this, I don’t think we can criticise anyone for suggesting novices follow manufacturer’s recommendations without criticising the manufacturer.


I do not think that I have ever seen the instruction DVD.

I find it alarming that leading edge upwards was recommended in the book but pointed out that if was for others to deal with the safety issue.

I think that expressing concern is completely legitimate and would not want to endorse a practice that I considered risky or potentially downright dangerous. I have mentioned previously, my personal concerns about 'over confident fliers' flying over or close to people.

Felix

#27 Choccy

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 08:30 AM

I have mentioned previously, my personal concerns about 'over confident fliers' flying over or close to people.

as opposed to a non confident flyer ;)
1 of the 47.

#28 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:27 AM

@ Felix

PM on its way.
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#29 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:00 AM

@ Felix

PM on its way.


Was that PM or e-mail? Seems to have gone astray!

Felix

#30 Simon

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:03 AM

I found the suggestion for tying lines on to the kite with the 'leading edge up' somewhat alarming...

I thought that the convention for setting up the kites 'leading edge down' was fully established way before 1996!

Felix



Hi Felix, I seem to remmeber a few people doing it this way.

Thing is it has to read in cojunction with Page 22 where it sways to stake the bottom of the handles, so that when the kite is attached it leans away from the flyer. There seem sto be a lot of Dual line refrence and this way is very similar to the dual line method.

Over the years most have moved to LE down as experience has shown it to be more reliable as it forces the kite to "fly" into the ground making it a safer option.

Now all we need to do is decide how to wind the lines ;)

I've always been the odd one out in The Flying Squad as I wind from Kite to handles.

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#31 Stone in Shoe Bob

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:12 AM

Was that PM or e-mail? Seems to have gone astray!

Felix

No sorry, it just took me a while to compose should be there now.
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#32 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:24 AM

No sorry, it just took me a while to compose should be there now.


PM on its way back...

#33 Jonesey

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:32 AM

I do not think that I have ever seen the instruction DVD.

I find it alarming that leading edge upwards was recommended in the book but pointed out that if was for others to deal with the safety issue.

I think that expressing concern is completely legitimate and would not want to endorse a practice that I considered risky or potentially downright dangerous. I have mentioned previously, my personal concerns about 'over confident fliers' flying over or close to people.

Felix



Can I play devils advocate here ..... in the hope we don't become scare mongers and can rationally inform ..... Firstly I always set up leading edge down .... always have always will no conflict there but ...... Will someone please explain objectively/scientifically why is it more 'Potentially dangerous' or risky to set up leading edge up when in theory we are dealing with a quad line kite with four equal length lines that is equally (?) capable of flight in reverse and forward so assuming you stake you handles accordingly should be equally stable leading edge up or down ...

One of the key reason that gets quoted is the kite flying off on its own and hurting someone etc .... surely this is equally likely either way??? ... most common reason seems to be people tripping over lines or bad staking .... I remember a friend of mine arriving at the Portsmouth iQuad clinic late last year and in his haste he tripped over a line, kite flew off cartwheeled through lots of other lines and crashed into the ground just missing some people .... the kite was leading edge down and well staked.

I repeat I am am deliberately playing devils advocate here because I don't think anyone has adequately explained why it should be such a criminal offence to buck the current convention ;)

#34 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:32 AM

Hi Felix, I seem to remmeber a few people doing it this way.

Thing is it has to read in cojunction with Page 22 where it sways to stake the bottom of the handles, so that when the kite is attached it leans away from the flyer. There seem sto be a lot of Dual line refrence and this way is very similar to the dual line method.
<snip>


I saw the bit about staking the bottom of the handles!

As was noted by Fraser the natural position for the Rev is leading edge down. Give it a chance and it will find its way there but there may be multiple wraps in the lines as a result.

I do not fancy calculating the actual speed of a wing tip and the available kinetic energy of an out of control kite but having been hit at full speed by a 'not SLE' framed Rev kite recently I think that we should all take every practical precaution to avoid accidents. (Especially with unsuspecting spectators who will not know the risks involved)

Felix

#35 LS Kite Stakes

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:35 AM

Obviously this book is no longer in print. Maybe a collaborative effort could be made with the original authors to update and republish this book (electronically most likely), or make a new complete How to fly a Rev book, with Revolution Enterprises endorsement, that would contain everything the current book has with certain issues addressed. Add sections on team, megafly, The Grid, flying competitions at festivals, and so on. Expand the safety section, it is far too short and does not address many things such as personal protection from the elements, things not to do when setting up, flying, and take down, etc. Kinda think of it as a Revs for Dummies book that covers as many topics on the Rev (think of all the good advice found on this forum) as possible, and give both newbies and folks that have been flying revs for a while a good read. Make it available through the Revolution website as a PDF download, or publish it as a hard copy, or both. Revolution could even charge a modest price for the download to recoup any cost for authoring it.

Here I go having grandiose ideas again.......TAXI!!!!!!! :blushing:
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#36 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 11:55 AM

<snip>

I repeat I am am deliberately playing devils advocate here because I don't think anyone has adequately explained why it should be such a criminal offence to buck the current convention ;)


I do not think that anyone is suggesting it should be 'such a criminal offence'. Maybe you could explain why you stick to the convention which has been in place since the early 1990s but has not apparently been included in Rev Company instructional material.

In my mind it is clear that without people tripping through the lines that the kite is most stable leading edge down and when the handles are lifted from the stake having been secured at the top connection they remain in a 'stable position' relative to the kite.

Also, IMHO the best learner move it to rotate the kite from the LE down position to LE up position.

Felix

#37 Sailor99

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:08 PM

Fraser? Did he go and stir people up then remove his post? LE up LE down. I prefer down because I can hang my hat on the bottom of the up rights. But of course I haven't perfected the wing tip set up yet. The advantage of that is that if some dog walker, dog or goose walks into your lines then the kite instantly powers up drawing the lines taught and tripping them up so they end up with a very muddy nose/muzzle/beak. Quite clearly the most advantagous and safest way to set up I am sure you will agree.

Now, do carry on gentlemen. I believe Mr Jones was in the blue corner....
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#38 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:15 PM

<snip>
I've always been the odd one out in The Flying Squad as I wind from Kite to handles.


Let me get this clear. You land the kite and secure it leading edge down. You walk to the kite, take the vertical spars out, disconnect the lines but link the left and right pairs, fold the kite and then reel the lines back to the staked handles?

Sounds good to me!

Felix

#39 Felix Mottram

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:21 PM

Fraser? <snip> Post 22?


Seemed like a valid comment to me...

Felix

#40 Harrier

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 12:25 PM

Fraser? Did he go and stir people up then remove his post? LE up LE down. I prefer down because I can hang my hat on the bottom of the up rights. But of course I haven't perfected the wing tip set up yet. The advantage of that is that if some dog walker, dog or goose walks into your lines then the kite instantly powers up drawing the lines taught and tripping them up so they end up with a very muddy nose/muzzle/beak. Quite clearly the most advantagous and safest way to set up I am sure you will agree.

Now, do carry on gentlemen. I believe Mr Jones was in the blue corner....


You don't appear to be taking this matter very seriously, you must have read the Taylors comment "Have fun and enjoy" :lol:

As Jonesey points out the kite can fly backwards well enough on its own, quite annoying when you first start trying to fly the thing.

Moving pictures with sound seem a better way to tutor those in need of help.




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