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B series handle tuning


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#41 Kitelife

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 02:45 AM

Think sailing, and "sheeting".

The slack makes for a loose (trailing) edge, and ultimately, pressure lost from the sail.

John Barresi

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#42 Sailor99

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 03:12 AM

The analogy works for me!

Taking it a step further, pumping or in this case giving the lines a tug gives a momentary burst of power as Felix was explaining.

It would be great to run through this in the clinic if there is time. There is a good chance there will be light winds!
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#43 Jonesey

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 03:39 AM

Think sailing, and "sheeting".

The slack makes for a loose (trailing) edge, and ultimately, pressure lost from the sail.



John.... if I may be so bold as we are taking the sailing analogy... the other thing about that is of course that a 'sail' that is oversheeted can be less efficient and generate less lift then one undersheeted so in rev terms the trick is getting the amount of sheet/break tension right to generate lift without stalling and this is far more evident in light 'marginal' flying weather...

If you ever get the chance to watch Olympic widsurfers 'flapping' around the course in very light or no breeze the process of 'pumping' the sail to generate lift/drive is deceptively difficult to get right ...

I was playing with my 2~4 in very light airs the other night and the thing that was obvious was that as soon as you could generate airflow over the 'wing' lift was generated and as the kite accelarated it created more lift etc etc ... pretty soon you are charging around the sky it what appears to be no breeze (someone actually came up and asked me what was keeping the kite in the air!) ... of course then you learn pretty quickly that if you dont have the handle tuning just right, a feel for how 'greedy' to be on sheet tension and to maintain lift/speed through turns, the whole thing unravels and the kite stalls, slows down, lift dissapears and a severe bought of 'ground rush' begins ..... of course if your quick and have enough altitude you can use gravity to your advantage to generate speed/lift and off you go again.. great fun!

For me the biggest difference has been that the more I concentrate on getting the movement and 'sheet' tension (with the help of handle tuning) thing right the less I am having to walk around ... needless to say my wife see's that as a backward step if you'll pardon the pun ;)

#44 Kitelife

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 03:58 AM

Great break down. ;)

The other thing to take into account is the curvature of the leading edge and sail when it's properly loaded.

Pumping the kite or pulling back on it (with the right handle positioning) increases the curve, and lets the trailing edge out more (hence the extra brake in higher winds).

John Barresi

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#45 Choccy

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:02 AM

Taking it a step further, pumping or in this case giving the lines a tug gives a momentary burst of power as Felix was explaining.

Am I missing something here, isn't this the very first principle we learn when launching a kite for the first time ?

So nothing new ? :confused!:
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#46 Sailor99

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:09 AM

You are right, not new. However it is easy to forget you can use it to initiate a sharp turn, or climb, or whatever. Also the opposite of moving forward to help stop a movement (although I could have phrased that better)
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#47 Choccy

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:14 AM

Phew, that is a relief, not more new stuff to learn :lol:

It *is* so easy to forget things when we are not challenged by different conditions.
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#48 Kitelife

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:23 AM

Nah, you explained it quite well Sailor. ;)

John Barresi

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#49 Felix Mottram

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:25 AM

You are right, not new. However it is easy to forget you can use it to initiate a sharp turn, or climb, or whatever. Also the opposite of moving forward to help stop a movement (although I could have phrased that better)


The point I was making was that 'hand position' at the beginning and end of transition may be 'critical' and that the hand movement may be all that is required to execute the transition.

A quick forward movement can reduce the effective wind speed and 'stall' the kite's movement without the risk of over 'correction' that might occur using the 'brake' lines. Keeping the sail effectively 'fully inflated' in this situation allows for further rapid transitions! (Sorry, I am going to have to add another <grin> at this stage as I remember learning how to fly a single line fighter kite)

Felix

#50 melnsct

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 04:34 AM

John, Isn't it VERY early in the morning where you are? Get some sleep!!!!
Melanie
Melanie in Tennessee

#51 Jonesey

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 05:04 AM

John, Isn't it VERY early in the morning where you are? Get some sleep!!!!
Melanie


Melanie ... your on a thread with Sailor, Choccy and me and you went Off Topic before us... Wow didnt see that ever happening!

But your right .. whats up John are you using Sailors alarm clock?? (if you watch his posts they are nearly always at 5am or there abouts)


John/Felix ... I know from my sailing days that light air sailing more then anything is about 'feel' and I know for some people it is just something you cant teach ... do you think its the same with this type of skill/technique?

Seems to me its like a lot of sports (sailing, driving etc etc) the top guys always seem to have 'soft hands' or a light touch and respond to the feedback they get through the controls ... while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it :)

#52 Kitelife

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 05:06 AM

Up at 3am today, 6:45am flight to Seattle, then on to Tokyo for 12 days... Back on the 11th, then to Canada on the 12th... Going to spend time with a friend there, and fly with the locals.

Working on the new Kitelife site throughout my trip. ;)

Thankfully, after that, I'll have 2-3 weeks at home before my next event.

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#53 Choccy

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 05:40 AM

Melanie ... your on a thread with Sailor, Choccy and me and you went Off Topic before us... Wow didnt see that ever happening!

But your right .. whats up John are you using Sailors alarm clock?? (if you watch his posts they are nearly always at 5am or there abouts)

while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it :)


1. Yup, surprised also (I'm always getting told off) :lol: :innocent:
2. Well I'm guessing Sailor isn't getting up to feed his revs so it must be some other quad life..... nayyyyyyy (?)
3. Guilty as charged, gripping handles: its either me or the kite... kite wins: worse case was last Saturday :blue-confused:
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#54 Sailor99

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 05:49 AM

... while us newbies are gripping the handles like our lives depend on it :)

Quite right. Once should tenderly guide with your thumbs, gently control with your top two fingers, and sensually caress with your ring and pinky finger (I think this is what they have been learning in Wildwoods during what they term 'rev games'). You don't grab it like a chicken's neck!

Are yes, 1500. Time for my afternoon nap me thinks.
Over - Jeremy

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#55 melnsct

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:01 AM

Melanie ... your on a thread with Sailor, Choccy and me and you went Off Topic before us... Wow didnt see that ever happening!



WOW!! I'm in the club!!
Melanie in Tennessee

#56 Sailor99

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:07 AM

WOW!! I'm in the club!!

Congratulations. Your first?

BTW and TOT, would your personal statement not work better as "Cogito Ergo Sum"? Or even, if you will excuse me ravishing the grammar, "Sum sum"
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#57 Jonesey

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 06:35 AM

Congratulations. Your first?

BTW and TOT, would your personal statement not work better as "Cogito Ergo Sum"? Or even, if you will excuse me ravishing the grammar, "Sum sum"


Thats why he gets so early ..... to read his 'Latin for Dummies' :kid_devlish:

#58 Kitelife

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 07:00 AM

I've been pretty successful with conveying the "touch" to pilots thus far, with at least 15-20 minutes of hands-on coaching... But applying the understanding, that is wholly up to the individual.

John Barresi

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(found in a fortune cookie - possibly an Einstein quote)

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#59 melnsct

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 07:18 AM

Look at John trying to get this thread back on topic....just as I was doing so well!!!
Sailor, I appreciate the advice but I am from Tennessee and one would get shot around here for using Latin!!
Melanie in Tennessee

#60 Sailor99

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 08:00 AM

to read his 'Latin for Dummies' :kid_devlish:


Latin Pro Bardus actually.
Over - Jeremy

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