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Line Lengths Frustration


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#21 steveb

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 06:59 AM

Slightly means by at least 2-3 inches, maybe even 4. The line is wrapped up on the holder right now, but the loops on the lines (forgive the lack of technical terms) all start within a 16th of an inch of each other and they wrapped up all the way to the other side. These were not manufactured and then shipped. A kite shop here in Oregon made them for me.


Just a bit of clarification, please- are you judging the line length being different by how they are wound on the winder or have you staked them out and compared them?

Lines that are the exact same length often look wrong when wound on the winder.

#22 Sailor99

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 08:20 AM

This is a 1. Take them to the guy who made them and tell them to fix the mistake.
As everyone has said it is not brain surgery to fix but if you let the guy know he screwed up :confused!: perhaps he will do it right for the next guy. :kid_smartass:

Assuming they were wrong. We don't know what the line is, and if its not (say)LPG then one fly would put them out by that amount, easy. I made up some shanti 120' lines, and after the first fly they were up to 6" out.
Over - Jeremy

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#23 Baloo

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 08:53 AM

[font="Verdana"]
Baloo, too late! Theresa already infected me last year at Long Beach Washington, though she may not know it.

"snip"

Matt "The Unpronounceable" Jones


I am afraid you are just doomed to a life of fun and frolicks then Matt.

Wish I lived as near to T as you do. Then again I dont as I wouldnt have met Stephen, Jeremy, Bob, David and so many others tis side of the pond. And it would be rather a long trip to Portsmouth etc.

#24 Sailor99

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 08:57 AM

Baloo, you say the nicest things you know. It is of course a pleasure having met you too.
Over - Jeremy

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#25 big bri

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:12 PM

Mr J Mitchell and j Rawlins give me the advice a while ago on stretching my lines out after i had made them.I usually leave them all stretched out with a good pull on them for as long as a can.I do leave them stretched under alot of equal tension.Seems to do the trick

If a quality line has 3% stretch and your line is 100ft,thats a good bita stretchin.


BRIAN...

#26 Sailor99

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:27 PM

If a quality line has 3% stretch and your line is 100ft,thats a good bita stretchin.

3% would be a disaster! about 3 feet out!!!!! But your point is important and correct- we are asking a lot of freshly braded line to have less than a quarter inch stretch in a 100' line after we make them and load them up.
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#27 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:30 PM

Just a bit of clarification, please- are you judging the line length being different by how they are wound on the winder or have you staked them out and compared them?

Lines that are the exact same length often look wrong when wound on the winder.


As of this morning, staked out and about a 4 inch difference between the longest and shortest, with the other two at different lengths in between. It's written Spectre #80 on the winder which is what the kite shop had. I looked up Spectre line and found not much at all, and got lots of hits on Spectra #80. And again, I know that my orig. post sort of sounded angry at the store, well maybe more frustrated. But the store's a good store and I don't have too much of a quibble with them.

Now, I don't think the lines were prestretched, which may be accounting for some (all) of this issue. Of course I know next to nothing about kite line except that LPG is good and comes pre-stretched so this might not happen in the future, but you pay a little more for it. I'm thinking that, just maybe, somebody might need to do some kite line research :D Which is why I'm here.

I do feel as though Jonesy and Sailor99 have given me enough info to fix the situation so I'm not upset at all. Besides learning proper maintenance is as (if not more) important than flying. If I can't tie the knots or keep up the kite, I probably shouldn't be doing this at all.

Any tips on stretching line on the ground prior to launch? Even a URL or a point in the direction where somebody else has already addressed it, if you don't want to rewrite the whole thing.

#28 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:31 PM

Mr J Mitchell and j Rawlins give me the advice a while ago on stretching my lines out after i had made them.I usually leave them all stretched out with a good pull on them for as long as a can.I do leave them stretched under alot of equal tension.Seems to do the trick

If a quality line has 3% stretch and your line is 100ft,thats a good bita stretchin.


BRIAN...


You read my mind.

#29 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:37 PM

I am afraid you are just doomed to a life of fun and frolicks then Matt.

Wish I lived as near to T as you do. Then again I dont as I wouldnt have met Stephen, Jeremy, Bob, David and so many others tis side of the pond. And it would be rather a long trip to Portsmouth etc.


I believe I am doomed. But it's a good doomed.

We wouldn't mind having you here in Portland, but Portland to Midlands might be a tad bit long for a commute. 'Course if you hooked enough Revs together and could get them up to the Jetstream... :lol:

MJ-sigrfgdrifquahypp

#30 Sailor99

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 12:58 PM

You're in good company in Portland. If you see anyone flying a blue 1.5 ask him to to give you a lesson ;););)

Spectra is a generic name for a type of fibre made by Honeywell, the most common fibre for sports kite lines (strictly spectra 2000). The 80 refers to the maximum test load breaking strain. 80lbs is a kind of general purpose loading, just right for your needs I suspect. However the fact that is says spectra really only implies it is not the very best quality of line. Although Honey well make it, and old Tom, Dick or Harry can braid and finish it. As such a pretty large amount of stretch is to be expected I am afraid. As you say, you pay a bit more (well quite a lot more) for pre-streched lines. Expect to adjust them quite regularly for the next few weeks.

As to stretching them, IMHO the best way to do that is to fly a kite! But you can also tie them to something solid, pass them through a strong eyebolt and then hang weights off them if your yard is big enough. I am sure you can think of some way to have them stretched out with weight on. I used mine as a clothes line once, which made life with the other half a little less stressful!

As to stretching pre-launch, it is not necessary. Once stretched they stay that way. Have a look at your lines, they are actually a series of fibers all woven , or braided,into each other. The fibres themselves hardly stretch at all (less that one hundredth of a percent if you want to get technical). The pre-stretching process would perhaps be better called bedding in. You stretch the lines to make all the fibres bed snuggly up against each other and in line.
Over - Jeremy

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#31 big bri

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:39 PM

3% was to get the point across,but as i said.Its good advice and a good practice to pre stretch your lines.The problem with flying the stretch out of your QUAD lines,is that the top lines would stretch more than the bottom lines.You could then swop the lines over,but if the winds dropped or up more your faced with unequal lines again,,,Hence-Pre Stretch :) .

Pre stretch is easy .Two good ground stakes,put lines over one end and the other ends over the other with sufficient tension which will be equal on all four lines,,jobs a goodn.


BRIAN...

#32 RevWizard

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 03:02 PM

3% was to get the point across,but as i said.Its good advice and a good practice to pre stretch your lines.The problem with flying the stretch out of your QUAD lines,is that the top lines would stretch more than the bottom lines.You could then swop the lines over,but if the winds dropped or up more your faced with unequal lines again,,,Hence-Pre Stretch :) .

Pre stretch is easy .Two good ground stakes,put lines over one end and the other ends over the other with sufficient tension which will be equal on all four lines,,jobs a goodn.


BRIAN...

Either really good ground stakes or better a solid tree. But then you need a strap long enough to go around the tree with a carbine hook on it for the line loops.
As for ground stakes, if you don't use good, properly inserted ground stakes, you could end up eating them.

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#33 Theresa

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 10:54 PM


Baloo, too late! Theresa already infected me last year at Long Beach Washington, though she may not know it.

Actually Theresa, you're the "shoppe" I was considering coming to when I talked about taking it in up above. I'm pretty sure we met last year at Long Beach. You may not remember me, but you might remember my two little red-haired boys. I'm pretty sure it was you who kindly invited my mother (also "infected") and I into your apartment meet the Spanish guys who were fixing their black and red Devil after another kite had slashed right through it.

Neither my mother nor I forgot how helpful you were with your advice. In fact when I mentioned this whole line issue to her, she said, "There's always that Theresa with the shop in Vancouver, that's not too far away."
I've been meaning to get to your shop but it hasn't been in the cards so far. But you may see me sooner rather than later, now that a Rev has dropped into my lap. We're headed out for Memorial Day and I'd like to be able to take the Rev with me.

Matt "The Unpronounceable" Jones


Ah HA! Matt! Yes, I remember :) :)

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#34 MrDenny

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 05:24 AM

I read somewhere on this forum that a good way to stretch out the lines was tie them end to end and fly a heavy single line kite with that for an afternoon. It sure sounds good. :confused!:

Denny #12

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#35 steveb

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 08:56 AM

I read somewhere on this forum that a good way to stretch out the lines was tie them end to end and fly a heavy single line kite with that for an afternoon. It sure sounds good. :confused!:

That's how I break the line in. You just have to be very careful to do it in a place that doesn't have kids running around with dollar store kites.

That twisted Nylon string goes through Spectra in the blink of an eye. :kid_cussing:

#36 Choccy

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:20 AM

...your apartment meet the Spanish guys who were fixing their black and red Devil after another kite had slashed right through it.

Hello,
Oh my, I hope the beer was the anesthetic for the poor giant devil.
Pedro's Devil rox..and I have not seen it for a number of years now so hope it is OK :blue-confused:
1 of the 47.

#37 Jim Foster

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:25 AM

After flying new lines in good wind a few times, most or nearly all of the stretch should be gone. Then any adjustments you make in length will last a long time.

A very easy way to check for equal length is to set up, ready to fly, then put your handles together. Hold the tops together with one hand, the bottoms together with the other hand, keeping them parallel, and give the kite a launch. If it goes straight or nearly straight, your lines are OK. If the kite heads off to one side or the other, you need a line adjustment.

A difference top to bottom is no big deal. You can switch top lines to bottom on occasion to even this out as top lines tent to stretch more than bottom until all the stretch is gone.

Very simple.
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#38 Jim Foster

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:36 AM

One other thing........

As stated before, when your lines are on the winder, they most likely will not be the same length.

I keep my lines in pairs. I wind both pairs together. When I wind in a "figure eight" pattern, there can be as much as six or eight inches difference in the two pairs at the end. No one has been able to figure out just why.

When I just wind around and around the winder, they usually come out within an inch. That's how I wind now. No "figure eight", just round and round. Very simple, very fast and no tangles.
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#39 steveb

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:29 PM

Judging line lengths on the winders is deceptive, as some of the lines will be on top of others; making it a longer distance for them to wind.

It's sort of like a track meet oval- the outer lanes have farther to go. That's why they have staggered starting blocks, to allow for the different lengths each lane has.

The best way to get the lines exactly the same is with an Equalizer:
moran_equilizer.jpg

They are hard to find these days though, so you can try staking them a windless day, gradually pulling them all tight and see which lines droop lowest- those are longer. If they all are the same under the same tension, they are close enough.

As mentioned by Jim Foster, launching the kite dead downwind, with both handles in the same position in one hand is a quick way to tell if your lines are off. It will pull towards the shorter lines.

#40 Sailor99

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 09:34 PM

Some of the handles have an equaliser built in. The Clima multi-winder for example
Over - Jeremy

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