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Line Lengths Frustration


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#1 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:27 PM

Okay, new to the sport and the forums, have only flown the Rev kites at the Kite Festival in Long Beach Washington, but I think I did okay for my first 45mins. I was just given a Rev for my birthday (way cool) and the lines we purchased for it are slightly different lengths. Frustrating 'cause the kite kept flipping to the right when I could get it up at all.

Slightly means by at least 2-3 inches, maybe even 4. The line is wrapped up on the holder right now, but the loops on the lines (forgive the lack of technical terms) all start within a 16th of an inch of each other and they wrapped up all the way to the other side. These were not manufactured and then shipped. A kite shop here in Oregon made them for me.

So my question is this: On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is screwing in a lightbulb and 10 is rewiring your house for electricity, how easy a fix is this? Am I headed back to the shop? (or another one, since why should I trust the guys who messed it up in the first place, however nice they may be...)

Conceptually I think I get it.
1. Lay out the line so that all four are evenly started
2. Check lengths (but after this it gets tricky right?)
3. Move the material that creates the "loop" that you create to attach to the handle
4. Retie the line to the right length
5. Cut off offending length beyond the new knot

The "loop" looks like a nylon "sock" that slips over the line itself and then is tied off to create the loop that you attach to the handle or bridle. If it's really just a sock that makes tying and untying easier and it can slip around when it's not knotted, that makes life much simpler.

I really wish that my Nikon hadn't died or I could send you photos of the extra length and what I mean by a "sock over the line" I don't know if "manufactured cord" would be different.

Anyhow, great sport, can't hardly wait to get it fixed and back out in the air (minus the unintentional twirling of course)

Matt

#2 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:59 PM

The good news is that we are talking 2 here. Like the light bulb only the holder is a little out of shape so it need some fiddling with.

You do need all the lines the same length, so you are correct when you say this is the problem. They need to be with in half an inch of each other, and preferably better than that. Your method is pretty much there.

Firstly find out which is the shortest. Use that as your bench mark for the other lines. Use just the one line as the bench mark or you risk "increasing errors" - ie you measure off one line but are out by say a quarter inch. You use that "out" line to measure again and are out by a quarter inch again. now you have a total of half an inch error. And so on.

Untie all the knots but one leaving a loop at one end. Attach all the lines to a stake and lay them out. Using your bench mark line, get them as close as you can with the sleeves (which should all be the same length, and is what your refer to as a sock) in the same place. Start re-tieing. Put just one knot in each line. Then check each line AGAINST THE BENCH MARK, and adjust. remember to stretch them out under tension when you check them. You will need to do a bit of jiggling round with the knots. Its fiddly, but not difficult. Then tie the second knot and check again. Make adjustments as necessary - I don't know why but it always is necessary, it drives you nuts! The knots are simple overhand knots (also known as thumb knots).

If you accidentally pull one of the lines out of its sleeve you will need a E wire guitar string. Fold it in half and put the line through the loop of the guitar string. Then use the guitar string as a kind of needle to thread the line through the center of the sleeve. If this sounds complex don't worry. Just don't accidentally pull the sleeves off the lines. And once you have the guitar string it becomes obvious, honestly!

To be fair to your dealer, new lines stretch. It is normal to have to go through this process several times with a lines set. The better quality the lines, the less you have to go through it. A right royal PIA I know, but there it is. The best thing is to check your line lengths regularly and to swap the top and bottom lines to equalise stretch.
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#3 Jonesey

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 01:03 PM

Okay, new to the sport and the forums, have only flown the Rev kites at the Kite Festival in Long Beach Washington, but I think I did okay for my first 45mins. I was just given a Rev for my birthday (way cool) and the lines we purchased for it are slightly different lengths. Frustrating 'cause the kite kept flipping to the right when I could get it up at all.

Slightly means by at least 2-3 inches, maybe even 4. The line is wrapped up on the holder right now, but the loops on the lines (forgive the lack of technical terms) all start within a 16th of an inch of each other and they wrapped up all the way to the other side. These were not manufactured and then shipped. A kite shop here in Oregon made them for me.

So my question is this: On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is screwing in a lightbulb and 10 is rewiring your house for electricity, how easy a fix is this? Am I headed back to the shop? (or another one, since why should I trust the guys who messed it up in the first place, however nice they may be...)

Conceptually I think I get it.
1. Lay out the line so that all four are evenly started
2. Check lengths (but after this it gets tricky right?)
3. Move the material that creates the "loop" that you create to attach to the handle
4. Retie the line to the right length
5. Cut off offending length beyond the new knot

The "loop" looks like a nylon "sock" that slips over the line itself and then is tied off to create the loop that you attach to the handle or bridle. If it's really just a sock that makes tying and untying easier and it can slip around when it's not knotted, that makes life much simpler.

I really wish that my Nikon hadn't died or I could send you photos of the extra length and what I mean by a "sock over the line" I don't know if "manufactured cord" would be different.

Anyhow, great sport, can't hardly wait to get it fixed and back out in the air (minus the unintentional twirling of course)

Matt



Matt...

No drama .... you have it pretty much right and don't worry about the terminology .. we all know what you mean!

The only bit I'm not clear on is if you think the lines are out because of the way they sit on the winder or whether you have staked them out and measured them?
If its on the winder ... don't worry they rarely end up all together no matter how you wind your lines (somebody on here will say 'mine always do' but dont worry about it).

Either way its fairly straight forward ... if you have a ground stake (screwdriver will do for this), Pin all four ends and lay the lines out pull hand tight and it should be immediately obvious if there is any difference in the lengths don't be afraid to put reasonable tension on the lines as depending on what you've been sold there could be a bit of stretch in them if there new ... If one or line is over length you should be able to simple untie the knot (s) slide the leader (braided cover) up the line a bit and re-tie to match the others ... its usually just a simple thumb knot or two and getting the right length is usually a bit of trial and error at first but you will get the hang of it I'm sure..... If you make your own lines or bridles you can make all sorts of jigs and tools to make replication easy (nails in bits of wood, garden walls, work benches etc) but for most of us shortening broken lines or equalising stretched or incorrect lines is a part of the game!

When you have finished makes sure you separate your lines back into pairs and larks head them together both ends before winding them away...

I'm sure others will be along shortly to add their two pennies worth but as a relative newbie myself may I be the first to say welcome and make sure you check back here regularly its a mine of useful information and often a good laugh too!

Jonesey

#4 Jonesey

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 01:04 PM

Sailor you out typed me!!

#5 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 01:06 PM

Is there an echo round here? :)
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#6 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 01:08 PM

Sailor you out typed me!!

Keep practicing. You may win one day (not)! :)
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#7 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 01:51 PM

The only bit I'm not clear on is if you think the lines are out because of the way they sit on the winder or whether you have staked them out and measured them?
If its on the winder ... don't worry they rarely end up all together no matter how you wind your lines (somebody on here will say 'mine always do' but dont worry about it).


I'm coming to this conclusion that it's the line because it kept flipping over to the right when I took off and there's absolutely no WAY it could POSSIBLY be operator-error, right!? :P Though I have to say that I did get pretty good at the whole up and down thing in those first 45 minutes. At any rate, the next time I take it out to the schoolyard, I'll make sure to stake them out and check them and fix 'em if necessary.

I'm sure others will be along shortly to add their two pennies worth but as a relative newbie myself may I be the first to say welcome and make sure you check back here regularly its a mine of useful information and often a good laugh too!
Jonesey


Thank you so much for the info and the warm welcome and your $.02

#8 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 02:01 PM

The good news is that we are talking 2 here. Like the light bulb only the holder is a little out of shape so it need some fiddling with.


Thank Goodness!!!

If you accidentally pull one of the lines out of its sleeve you will need a E wire guitar string. Fold it in half and put the line through the loop of the guitar string. Then use the guitar string as a kind of needle to thread the line through the center of the sleeve. If this sounds complex don't worry. Just don't accidentally pull the sleeves off the lines. And once you have the guitar string it becomes obvious, honestly!


My only question here is: High E or Low E? (I'm thinking high, 'cause the low E thickness might not fit through :D

To be fair to your dealer, new lines stretch. It is normal to have to go through this process several times with a lines set. The better quality the lines, the less you have to go through it. A right royal PIA I know, but there it is. The best thing is to check your line lengths regularly and to swap the top and bottom lines to equalise stretch.


Actually, I'll be more than fair and say I really like the shop. We've bought a vast majority of the one-liners that my kids fly and play with at the beach from these guys and they're super helpful. They're not going to lose my business over something this easy to fix and which could just have been a small lapse in attention. Four lines at 80-90 feet each and I would have made a mistake, not to mention tangled them horribly!

Thanks for the quick reply and help both of you two. Now stop bickering, sheesh! (Jonesy, I'm already laughing)

#9 ramakristan

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 05:50 PM

Welcome onboard mjsigrdrifa, need help and advise, you came to the right place.
They are not bickering, it is how they chat here, they are the best of pals when coming to Rev, I really do enjoyed reading their chats here, keep it up boys !!!
Both of you, Jonesy & Sailor99, you ROCK !!!
I do my lines adjustment on a piece of wood, 2 nails 2 or 3 feets on each end apart depending on individual for raining days, lol
Cheers

chris

www.ramakristan.multiply.com

#10 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 08:16 PM

:blushing: I Guess that means we have squeeze Kuala Lumpa into our UK world tour then! Good idea about the nail board. I'm going to have a go at that!

And yes it it a high E mjsirglifop (sp!). How does that user name go by the way?
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#11 RevWizard

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 08:41 PM

:blushing: I Guess that means we have squeeze Kuala Lumpa into our UK world tour then! Good idea about the nail board. I'm going to have a go at that!

And yes it it a high E mjsirglifop (sp!). How does that user name go by the way?

afirdrgisjm

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Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#12 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 08:56 PM

afirdrgisjm

I can see what you have done there, but still none the wiser!

How about:

Mr Idig Safr (jr)
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#13 RevWizard

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 09:17 PM

I can see what you have done there, but still none the wiser!

How about:

Mr Idig Safr (jr)

We know what the MJ is!
sigrd could be part of a first name such as Sigrid or Sigfried. rifa ?

Long John (formerly Mr. R)

STACK International Executive Committee - 6/1996-6/2008
International Rules Book Committee and STACK International Head Judge - 6/2004-6/2008
World Sport Kite Championship Judge - 2004-2005-2006(Chief Judge)
13x 1st - 12x 2nd - 6x 3rd places in 37 overall Quadline individual competitions


Web Site - http://www.johnnmitchell.com/index.html Check it out today!


#14 Theresa

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 09:28 PM

Anyhow, great sport, can't hardly wait to get it fixed and back out in the air (minus the unintentional twirling of course)

Matt


Hello Matt,

Are you in Portland? If so, I'm just across the river in Vancouver. I can fix them for you.

Send me a PM or e-mail.

Theresa

#15 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 09:38 PM

We know what the MJ is!



Oh yes, hadn't spotted that. I guess we are lucky its not LtCol (or Gen!) then - I'd be on bashing duty for questioning a suprior!
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#16 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:17 PM

We know what the MJ is!
sigrd could be part of a first name such as Sigrid or Sigfried. rifa ?



You got it mostly correct, it is from Norse legend. Sigrdrifa was one of the valkyries of Odin and I picked it up in college while writing a paper for a history class and it's sort of stuck ever since. Plus the spelling, while amusing my wife, could also possibly prevent people from logging in as me (how do you spell it, much less say it?) I've used it so long that my finger just naturally type it now.

Anyhoo, it's good to be a part of a great forum for a great sport.

#17 Sailor99

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:35 PM

So she is!

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#18 Baloo

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:22 AM

Thanks for the quick reply and help both of you two. Now stop bickering, sheesh! (Jonesy, I'm already laughing)


I could have explained it for you so much more simply (NOT), like to let others have a chance though. ;)

Good to see them bickering ateach other. Means they are leaving the rest of us alone. :P

If you have any trouble at all, take Theresa up on her offer. She makes the best line sets I have ever seen. (dont tell her I said that though) Only problem I see with T helping is that you might be tempted to become a Revaholic like the rest of us.

#19 MrDenny

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:43 AM

These were not manufactured and then shipped. A kite shop here in Oregon made them for me.

So my question is this: On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is screwing in a lightbulb and 10 is rewiring your house for electricity, how easy a fix is this? Am I headed back to the shop? (or another one, since why should I trust the guys who messed it up in the first place, however nice they may be...)


This is a 1. Take them to the guy who made them and tell them to fix the mistake.
As everyone has said it is not brain surgery to fix but if you let the guy know he screwed up :confused!: perhaps he will do it right for the next guy. :kid_smartass:

Denny #12

.. .


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#20 mjsigrdrifa

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 06:55 AM

If you have any trouble at all, take Theresa up on her offer. She makes the best line sets I have ever seen. (dont tell her I said that though) Only problem I see with T helping is that you might be tempted to become a Revaholic like the rest of us.


Baloo, too late! Theresa already infected me last year at Long Beach Washington, though she may not know it.

Actually Theresa, you're the "shoppe" I was considering coming to when I talked about taking it in up above. I'm pretty sure we met last year at Long Beach. You may not remember me, but you might remember my two little red-haired boys. I'm pretty sure it was you who kindly invited my mother (also "infected") and I into your apartment meet the Spanish guys who were fixing their black and red Devil after another kite had slashed right through it.

Neither my mother nor I forgot how helpful you were with your advice. In fact when I mentioned this whole line issue to her, she said, "There's always that Theresa with the shop in Vancouver, that's not too far away."
I've been meaning to get to your shop but it hasn't been in the cards so far. But you may see me sooner rather than later, now that a Rev has dropped into my lap. We're headed out for Memorial Day and I'd like to be able to take the Rev with me.

Matt "The Unpronounceable" Jones




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